WreckITFrank
Technical Excellence Contributor
going to see the grenadier tomorrow. i know it's been covered 1000 times, but if you have any questions, need measurements, or specific pics, let me know.
Grenadier
- Thread starter WreckITFrank
- Start date
Thedudeabides
Active member
Yup. I’m suggesting that the world’s democracies need to embark on a rapid program to produce/secure those resources as well as diversify production (economies of scale be damned). You can’t fight a war or even sustain a modern economy without them. They are present but we have eschewed those industries because it is dirty and NIMBY environmentalists object, that has been a mistake and I hope people are waking up to that fact.
vtlandrover
Well-known member
Tell us how the doors close! And your impressions of quality, in general. Looking forward to hearing your impressions.
Hello all. New member here. Unfortunately I'm not a LR owner. It's a long story but, cutting to the chase, I ended up in the Toyota camp. My daily is a near-stock 1970s era FJ40. I have read through a good portion of this thread and appreciate the thoughtful discourse regarding the new Ineos Grenadier. This is what precipitated my joining. Hope I'm not out of line here.
If anyone can supply info on the following it would help my decision making process. Please forgive my Toyota nomenclature
1) What is the ring gear diameter in the axle center sections?
2) Are both the same size or is the rear larger than the front?
3) If of the same dimension are they removable/swappable front to rear or are these Spicer style differentials (i.e. - not as easily serviceable in the field)?
4) Are the the knuckles closed/sealed? It's hard to tell from the various videos. They appear somewhat "shrouded" by the inner/outer knuckle castings.
5) If open or only shrouded, is there good (read: quick) visual access to confirm condition?
6) Are the axle shafts fitted with CV joints or standard u-joints?
7) Are/will the axle joints be fitted with boots or other protective covering?
8) Greasable knuckle bearings/kingpins or ball joints at the knuckles?
9) Are the wheel hubs fitted to spindles with inner and outer bearings or is a unit bearing used?
10) How strong does the connection point for the steering box/gear seem? The mounting points do not look to be widely spaced in pics and videos.
I saw the next question elsewhere but have not seen an answer...
11) Is the transfer case removable without partial disassembly (as is required with many Land Cruiser models)?
12) What is the diameter of the center differential ring gear in the transfer case?
And a final, crazy "baker's dozen" question...
13) Is there room for a clutch pedal on LHD models? It looks very problematic for RHD models due to engine fitment concerns.
Thanks and apologies for any presumption on my part. Cheers!
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WreckITFrank
Technical Excellence Contributor
Sorry, been busy. @TJS you have valid questions, but the bullet to this is that the drivetrain is fully bogus. The team asked me not to take any pictures of why I was under there, as he said it's not the final product and may simply be stand-in parts. The hood latch was broken, so no engine shots, but again he said it went like 20mph anyway and was no likely final product.
Here are my takeaways:
1. Launch in EU this August, launch in the US next August, so we don't really get the first year of the vehicle.
2. Price was not stated, but the target market is high-end Bronco
3. Vehicle was bigger than I thought. Not as big as my LR4, but bigger than my Jeep Grand Cherokee
4. Most of the interior was unfinished, so printed parts but still a good representation
5. Good bit of room inside for drivers and passengers. Rear passengers, if tall, will look at the roof or have to bend down a bit to see out of the window
6. The light blue is actually a pretty cool color
7. BMW lost certification for diesel in the US, which is why they cannot include it now, but they are trying to bring it later
8. Wasnt sure if it will have a dipstick. He laughed and said that question is only asked from East Coasters
9. Overheard that there were about 4500 reservations, but all that reserved will be able to get a truck. They are planning on some flippers which is ok, brings visibility to the brand.
10. Recaro seats were great. They said it's basically marine-grade vinyl that can be wiped and hosed. I did not want leather, so i was glad the demo had the vinyl.
11. Roof setup was nice. good weight-bearing and easy climb on the tire.
12. Only about 40 dealers in the US planned, Bosch service centers to fill the gap. No details yet on if BMW will assist with service or sales, but it's in discussion.
13. Estimated 5-year warranty, full-service guides, manuals, and parts sheets to the public. User field service will likely happen (do your own warranty)
14. Aftermarket parts welcomed and expected without voiding the warranty (of course to an extent)
15. They have room in the plant to scale. They will kick out Smart and Merc in the future if space is needed
16. Drive along with vehicles in US late August, and End of year user drive models. (2022)
That's about all I recall. The team was great, and hopefully, I get an invite for the ride along and drive.
These are the 17's. And most Defender owners ask about tire carrier weight rating
Here are my takeaways:
1. Launch in EU this August, launch in the US next August, so we don't really get the first year of the vehicle.
2. Price was not stated, but the target market is high-end Bronco
3. Vehicle was bigger than I thought. Not as big as my LR4, but bigger than my Jeep Grand Cherokee
4. Most of the interior was unfinished, so printed parts but still a good representation
5. Good bit of room inside for drivers and passengers. Rear passengers, if tall, will look at the roof or have to bend down a bit to see out of the window
6. The light blue is actually a pretty cool color
7. BMW lost certification for diesel in the US, which is why they cannot include it now, but they are trying to bring it later
8. Wasnt sure if it will have a dipstick. He laughed and said that question is only asked from East Coasters
9. Overheard that there were about 4500 reservations, but all that reserved will be able to get a truck. They are planning on some flippers which is ok, brings visibility to the brand.
10. Recaro seats were great. They said it's basically marine-grade vinyl that can be wiped and hosed. I did not want leather, so i was glad the demo had the vinyl.
11. Roof setup was nice. good weight-bearing and easy climb on the tire.
12. Only about 40 dealers in the US planned, Bosch service centers to fill the gap. No details yet on if BMW will assist with service or sales, but it's in discussion.
13. Estimated 5-year warranty, full-service guides, manuals, and parts sheets to the public. User field service will likely happen (do your own warranty)
14. Aftermarket parts welcomed and expected without voiding the warranty (of course to an extent)
15. They have room in the plant to scale. They will kick out Smart and Merc in the future if space is needed
16. Drive along with vehicles in US late August, and End of year user drive models. (2022)
That's about all I recall. The team was great, and hopefully, I get an invite for the ride along and drive.
These are the 17's. And most Defender owners ask about tire carrier weight rating
WreckITFrank
Technical Excellence Contributor
FlyersFan76
Well-known member
vtlandrover
Well-known member
Jaw dropped
blueboy
Well-known member
Yea, looks very nice in the short wheel base.
Thanks to WreckITFrank.
The lower they mount the spare, the more you can see out the rear window.
LR3/4 has 90 cubes cargo cap with slick back seat foldaway flat. Gren folding seat looks old school. Wheel wells protrude quite a bit. Pretty important spec/dimension. I understand a bigger version is in the works.
Having to dip to look out the rear side windows has been noticed by others as well, and is disappointing. However, the tallest pass usually gets to ride shotgun, and kids and dogs will be happy, so as a practical matter, may be a minor shortcoming.
The August roll out seems optimistic. That the vehicle pictured here is more a mock-up than a pre-production prototype isn't a confidence builder. One prototype was driven by 4X4 mag UK and the report is quite positive. However, it wasn't fully equipped, e.g. no diff lockers.
They did note the suspension was quite firm, and works very well when pushed at higher speeds. The front was jolting at low speeds over corrugations. Ineos really needs to get this right to qualify as the successor to the Def. With coils and conventional dampers, they've got to thread a needle to do it. Needs to work at curb and gross weights, and everything in between.
The lower they mount the spare, the more you can see out the rear window.
LR3/4 has 90 cubes cargo cap with slick back seat foldaway flat. Gren folding seat looks old school. Wheel wells protrude quite a bit. Pretty important spec/dimension. I understand a bigger version is in the works.
Having to dip to look out the rear side windows has been noticed by others as well, and is disappointing. However, the tallest pass usually gets to ride shotgun, and kids and dogs will be happy, so as a practical matter, may be a minor shortcoming.
The August roll out seems optimistic. That the vehicle pictured here is more a mock-up than a pre-production prototype isn't a confidence builder. One prototype was driven by 4X4 mag UK and the report is quite positive. However, it wasn't fully equipped, e.g. no diff lockers.
They did note the suspension was quite firm, and works very well when pushed at higher speeds. The front was jolting at low speeds over corrugations. Ineos really needs to get this right to qualify as the successor to the Def. With coils and conventional dampers, they've got to thread a needle to do it. Needs to work at curb and gross weights, and everything in between.
WreckITFrank
Technical Excellence Contributor
yeah, fold flat rear sits is a big miss IMO. Under the 2nd row cushion is main fuse block, spare battery, and a few other things, which is why he said the seats wont fold flat. I use my LR4 like a truck, so this is a consideration for me.
The asymmetries bother me. Compare the position of the front windscreen, to the front door glass, to the rear side glass.
That (photoshop?) looks better than the standard vehicle though.
I feared as much but had hoped with production supposedly starting soon or already underway for European models, a few details would have been finalized. Thank you for responding.
Agreed. This surprises me quite a bit.
The BMW B57 diesel option would be nice from the get go. The engine block is the largely the same as the petrol B58 so retrofitting might not be too difficult later on. With Euro7 emissions compliance right around the corner (and Ineos being a one-trick-pony currently) I doubt we'll ever see the diesel version in the U.S.A. though.
The lack of a dipstick on either the engine or the transmission is a bit troubling...
especially if I'm going to be my own warranty station.
Re: A clutch pedal. Would I really install a manual transmission in a new Grenadier? Not a chance. I don't have that kind of expendable income. Ten years down the road is another story. I tend to keep vehicles for time periods measured in decades so long term perspectives are important to me.
Thank you again for the pics, thoughts, and responses.
p.s. - I did contribute to the NAS-ROW fundraiser on day one. A forum with no ads is worth it imho.
Even with the under seat storage and battery/fuse block I'm not clear as to why the the rear wouldn't fold flat. Or get close to it. I don't know Defenders or other LR vehicles but it was common on older Land Cruiser wagons to have a rear seat bottom that was front hinged and tipped up against the rear of the front seats and a seat back that then folded forward nearly flat filling the space that the lower cushion normally occupied. I guess it could be from the very tall frame rails through the middle of the vehicle or other under-body space requirements (fuel tank, drive shaft/prop shaft, etc). Ideally I need the configurable space as I would also be using the Grenadier as a truck at times.