Grenadier

erover82

erover82

Well-known member
evilfij said:
I am not so sure. The JL in rubicon trim is well built and reasonably durable, D44 axles with lockers, interior is pretty spacious, similar in size to the old defender. That may have been true in the CJ/YJ/TJ era (although TJ rubis got D44) and they are small.

And Toyotas don’t break IME. Sure these options are not a TLC/G-wagen but they are much less money and much less complicated. I am on the fence, but I sort of need another automatic SUV that is new and not six figures. I am between the wrangler, the 4runner, the sequoia, and this is why I am following this thread as another potential option. As far as my daily, I will be keeping my taco. :)
Click to expand...

As lame as the new Defender is, it's still superior to the JL in most the ways Rovers always have been.
 
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vtlandrover

Well-known member
I have a bare-bones 6-cyl '17 Wrangler JKU (a rare half-door/4-door soft top) with a stripped out interior so water can drain out of the floors. I had a '15 Tacoma TRD Pro - the last year I could get the supercharger - and took it on some gnarly trails in CO and UT. I get the appeal for basic (in fact, I'm 'watching' an '89 Toyota pickup auction), but there's something to be said for build quality that I expect the Grenadier will have.

If you're looking for reliable, moderate tech, and supreme build quality, check out the 200 Series LCs. I sold a 65k mi 2011 last year for $36k... probably could have gotten much more, but was content with breaking even after a couple of years of trouble-free comfort on and off road. 10,000 miles into L663 ownership, I am pleased as punch. It does everything - and I mean everything - really, really well.
 
mgreenspan

mgreenspan

Founding Member
evilfij said:
I am not so sure. The JL in rubicon trim is well built and reasonably durable, D44 axles with lockers, interior is pretty spacious, similar in size to the old defender. That may have been true in the CJ/YJ/TJ era (although TJ rubis got D44) and they are small.

And Toyotas don’t break IME. Sure these options are not a TLC/G-wagen but they are much less money and much less complicated. I am on the fence, but I sort of need another automatic SUV that is new and not six figures. I am between the wrangler, the 4runner, the sequoia, and this is why I am following this thread as another potential option. As far as my daily, I will be keeping my taco. :)
Click to expand...
The Taco is a great vehicle. I’m partial to the GX470 because I have owned one for 10 years now and it’s been great. Have the earlier version (LC95) of one as a Toyota for my DD in the UK. Same can be said for it. Just goes. Gets the job done and doesn’t have issues.

I’m planning on getting a Grenadier, but will prob get it in the UK for my wife, inherit her Evoque diesel to replace the LC, and just keep driving the GX stateside.
 
evilfij

evilfij

Well-known member
My issue is that it really needs to be something the GF can drive. She can drive stick, she is just not that good at it and does prefer auto (I found and fixed up a 91 YJ Sahara auto so she had something to drive around when she needs to borrow a car lest she scuff my jag again, but I sort of like the YJ and would like it to be mine again and would prefer she had something else when needed). I’d love a 200 series TLC and thought about buying one a few times, I just could not get myself to spend $80k on a new vehicle (well, a new SUV we won’t mention the GT3 or the Hellcat challenger I am trying to buy). And, like the sequoia, I think it’s a bit big for my/GFs needs.

What I am worried about with the grenadier is it ends up being an orphan or a problem child (the irony of me saying this with my current fleet I appreciate). I am fairly certain that a Jeep or a 4runner I will be able to easily get parts until I am dead and that is attractive to me. Vehicles tend to be very long term commitments for me (I was very sad when I had to give up my VW TDI sportwagen).

I have seen the new-fender and there is no way I would get one with all the tech (even though the V8 is nice and a 4 banger 90 seems somewhat reasonable). Comparing it to a JL … it’s just two completely different vehicles. Generations apart really.

Too bad I can’t buy a Suzuki jimny in the US. That seems like a nice vehicle.

Back to Grenadier, I thought it was supposed to be a pretty basic vehicle, but it seems like they are dragging it upmarket in price and other ways. Maybe not, I don’t know. What does everyone think?
 
WreckITFrank

WreckITFrank

Technical Excellence Contributor
@evilfij the problem with FCA is, well it's FCA. Jeeps have zero space, the worst safety ratings on the planet, and are not built like they once were. (not a jeep guy, but owned a JGC and my buddy has 14 Jeeps so i go by his word) Having 2 minions now and a wife that is crazy safety-conscious, she doesn't even want me looking at a Jeep when the 4 million of them drive past. But I agree, from utilitarian vehicles to now lux priced SUV. I'm still in on the Grenadier, but losing hope (I really wanted diesel also). The diff between the G wagen/Defender/LC and the grenadier, is they took years to go mainstream lux, the grenadier is going through all those phases before it's even released.
 
evilfij

evilfij

Well-known member
It’s not a matter of paying for it, it’s a matter of can I justify it. ;-)

I don’t think Jeeps are small inside, then again, I don’t have rugrats to cart around and am used to lotus and Porsche.

I have to say, a 2 door JL is tempting. But the auto is a $2500 option and yada yada yada end up with a rubicon or even the one with the V8. The economy needs to crash so I can go around buying everything I want for cheap. I think a lot of the Jeep issues are just people who don’t take care of them or beat on them.
 
V

vtlandrover

Well-known member
Gosh we've gotten off-topic and back on again a few times today... evilfij and I have a thing or two in common: Tacos, YJs (I just bought the sweetest low mile, bone stock 4-banger '91 YJ (so base that it doesn't even have an antenna hole in the fender), and did you say Porsche?
 
RBBailey

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I replaced my Defender with a 1998 V6 GClass, and I love it. It is what the Defender could have been. I miss the Defender, but only in a nostalgic way.

At some point I will need to replace the G, and I will either step up to an early NAS V8 GClass, or get into a Grenadier. The Lexus 470 are awesome, and so are the 70 Series Toyotas. But the big thing is--The Grenadier is going to be sold in the USA! Even a solid axle GClass won't have that distinction anymore.

My heart is still with Land Rover, but Land Rover closed the door on us with the new Defender. If I ever end up with one of those, it will be the wife's replacement for the BMW X5 diesel. ...not likely.

https://flic.kr/p/2mTC7zL
 
P

pfshoen

Well-known member
Unless Toyota and Jeep produce factory parts for obsolete models longer than average, I'd guess that what affects parts supply in the long term is how many units were sold and are still running. Also, the DIY nature of owners and relatively simple construction/repairability.
For those who want to drive something less common, there may be a price to pay - harder to find parts.
The more Grenadiers built, the better. Volume production helps get the price down and leads to greater spares availability.
A MSRP as low as possible is a good objective, but if I ever bought a Gren, I'd prob find one used under warranty with a clean CarFax and good service history. We won't be getting first year models, so the first ones here may not be plagued by faults typical of new models.
Another impressive Gren vid above. They look good naked, too.
 
rocky

rocky

NAS-ROW Addict
In England right now so my experience with stop start is limited.
Done it with stick/manual and auto. I hate it with manual cars. Current ride, an Audi Q3 auto. I tend to shut it off.
Fwiw, auto boxes have to be modified as well to accommodate stop start.
It’s a feature I deleted on my F150 and glad I got a $50 credit from Ford for doing it.
 
Thedudeabides

Thedudeabides

Active member
vtlandrover said:
I have a bare-bones 6-cyl '17 Wrangler JKU (a rare half-door/4-door soft top) with a stripped out interior so water can drain out of the floors. I had a '15 Tacoma TRD Pro - the last year I could get the supercharger - and took it on some gnarly trails in CO and UT. I get the appeal for basic (in fact, I'm 'watching' an '89 Toyota pickup auction), but there's something to be said for build quality that I expect the Grenadier will have.

If you're looking for reliable, moderate tech, and supreme build quality, check out the 200 Series LCs. I sold a 65k mi 2011 last year for $36k... probably could have gotten much more, but was content with breaking even after a couple of years of trouble-free comfort on and off road. 10,000 miles into L663 ownership, I am pleased as punch. It does everything - and I mean everything - really, really well.
Click to expand...

Didn't Tesla's build quality suck at the outset? Seems reasonable to expect Ineos to have similar quality control issues as most other startup car makers. They are good looking vehicles and maybe worth leasing (if you are into that sort of thing) but I wouldn't want to buy one until they have worked out the production kinks for a few years. Hell I avoid first year production models from established carmakers.
 
Siia109

Siia109

Well-known member
WreckITFrank said:
Click to expand...
I understand the COVID has impacted huge aspects of commerce - I have seen it and personally been affected. But it still surprises me that something so massive as this factory built by a company that is a leader (merc) in the industry was found to be "not needed". Either it is a great sign that Merc can be this nimble when conditions dictate or its concerning that such a huge investment was made with out all the "boxes checked".
Suffice to say we may never know - but it does fuel my fascination with business / management of all aspects of automotive production.
 
P

pfshoen

Well-known member
No doubt there's a serious back story to MB dropping that factory.
It's a helluva time to be in the new car biz, worse time for a start up.
The Gren uses half the chips of a comparable new vehicle, but it only takes being short 1 per vehicle to park it.
 
Thedudeabides

Thedudeabides

Active member
pfshoen said:
No doubt there's a serious back story to MB dropping that factory.
It's a helluva time to be in the new car biz, worse time for a start up.
The Gren uses half the chips of a comparable new vehicle, but it only takes being short 1 per vehicle to park it.
Click to expand...

Indeed, my understanding is that Tesla has a real competitive advantage on the supply side now because they are more vertically integrated than other manufacturers and produce more of their chips internally.

After the big 3 spun off their parts divisions in the 90s, every manufacturer is now going to have to take a very close look at the security, durability and resilience their supply chains on the both for manufactured goods (e.g. chips from Taiwan) and raw materials (e.g. neon from Russia, rare earths from China). Companies have neglected and severely mis-priced political and social (i.e. "cancel" risk from armed conflict/Uyghur repression etc.) risk inherent in their supply chains. Ukraine, suez canal, US/China trade dispute, COVID have all exposed the vulnerability of far-flung global supply chains and I think most multi-nationals are going to be diversifying as well as limiting exposure to China (in favor of Vietnam and others).
 
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rocky

rocky

NAS-ROW Addict
The supply of precious materials for chip production has shrunk by 50% since the production stopped in Ukraine. Prices have risen 500% since December. China produces the other 50%.
Russia also holds the worlds supply of other vital raw materials.
 
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