Grenadier

[Angus]

These auto start and stop systems function by cutting fuel, not ignition. The emissions are not effected since the engine is warm and running closed loop. On the EPA test cycle there is a stopped idling section and manufacturers say it saves 5% on that test. To get credit for the savings it has to be automatic (but cane turned off). They do have to fortify the starters since they have to start the car a 100 times more often with the system.

 

[pfshoen]

That's exactly the thought I have. I'm just now at the point in life where, with two kids on their way off to college, a couple degrees under my belt, my wife and I both working full time, running a business on the side to supplement, and I might think about getting a loan on a car if it was something like a Grenadier. Blows my mind! But, more power to them; the more they buy, the more I can buy from them later! ...that said, I'm hoping to one day be able to buy a small airplane, so there is that...

This is a new one since the last one:

Good vid. HIs guess as to price may be way low, sadly.

@pfshoen - new car engines automatically turn off if at idle for more than a few seconds... i.e. at a red light. It's supposed to save on fuel and is gov't mandated. They do come with a deactivation button, but you can't set it to always be 'off.' Every time you start the car, you've got to proactively depress the button, and I find them to be almost hidden in most cars. On this prototype dash, the button is in the bottom left corner, away from everything else, and clearly intended to be easily located.

Thanks for the explanation. That feature makes a difference, for sure. Not surprised Gren thought it through.

 

[Angus]

sorry, duplicate post.

 

[pfshoen]

No question the feature saves fuel. However, engines are like a lot of machines. They wear less the fewer times they're turned on/off, started/stopped and accelerated/decelerated even if kept at operating temp.
During WWII when they were running factories 24/7, it was discovered that machine tools' scheduled maintenance intervals could be extended.

 

[Andrew]

The engine is designed for frequent start/stop operation. The bearings are coated with a hard lubricant (IROX) and the catalytic converter heats up quickly in close proximity to the engine and wastegate valve.

 

[RBBailey]

@pfshoen - new car engines automatically turn off if at idle for more than a few seconds... i.e. at a red light. It's supposed to save on fuel and is gov't mandated. They do come with a deactivation button, but you can't set it to always be 'off.' Every time you start the car, you've got to proactively depress the button, and I find them to be almost hidden in most cars. On this prototype dash, the button is in the bottom left corner, away from everything else, and clearly intended to be easily located.

Our X5 allows you to select if you want it activated or not. It's a 2017, regs might have changed since then.

 

[Siia109]

Our X5 allows you to select if you want it activated or not. It's a 2017, regs might have changed since then.

Yes I think most all models let you turn it off and on. I wish I could have the default setting as off and allow me to turn it on - but after reading this it doesn't seem like I can.

 

[evilfij]

At least for Porsches, there is a relay kit you can install which automatically presses the button, or rather remembers the last setting, to permanently disable it. Plug and play no auto start stop. I have to say between auto start stop, def, particulate filters even on gas vehicles, cylinder deactivation etc. all new emissions and fuel economy crap is terrible.

 

[jymmiejamz]

I can’t speak from experience on other brands, but I can say with complete certainty that the twin solenoid starters fitted to stop/start vehicles last way longer than all others. In my opinion, wear on the starter isn’t really a concern.

 

[vtlandrover]

@evilfij - I'll add this one to the complaint list about modern cars - and why I'm encouraged by the lack of too much tech in the Grenadier: my '22 Defender does a lot of things really well, but deciphering between a white fog line and a while band of snow not so much. So, even though I've deactivated lane departure (which, unlike the auto start/stop, is a setting that can be 'permanent'), every so often the computer physically moves the steering wheel to the left in an effort to 'correct.' It is far beyond disconcerting and unwelcome.

FWIW, and at the risk of going off topic, I have very little in the way of complaints about the LR5/pretender. After 10,000 miles, it does just about everything else better than most of my other recent vehicles including the '11 200-Series Land Cruiser it replaced. But the appeal for what I'm seeing in these videos is strong.

 

[pfshoen]

So now the driver has to be on guard for one more thing - auto drive weirdness/faults. Sounds like something that was govt. mandated, since it accomplishes the opposite of its stated intent.
I thought Stanley Kubrick addressed the issue well in the film 2001. Humans don't play well with a machine that has a mind of its own.
I don't look forward to dealing with more of this kind of thing in the future. Dig Tech "innovations" appear to come from a land that lacks both morality and common sense. What's not to like?

 

[Siia109]

I had a rental car that would interact with the steering wheel - kind of felt like mushy none responsive steering - I had no idea what it was the first time it happened. My first thought since it was a rental that the steering is f-ed up and I was bolt up right in my seat (I was on the highway) and thinking I need to pull over. I slowed down checked the mirrors and gently tested the steering - then slowly merged over to the right lane - and felt it again. I relaxed a bit and realized it was something to do with lane changing. But I damn near shit myself - the down side of driving older cars and then renting a new car...!

 

[vtlandrover]

As far as I'm concerned, the only appealing auto-anything is emergency braking... I am so scared of people texting, anything that will keep them from rear-ending me is most welcomed. We were on the right track and then COVID hit. I've convinced myself that it's even worse than pre-pandemic because here in Vermont, at least, we went a year without any law enforcement. Even though it's a point and financial penalty, I'd venture to say that more than half of the drivers are holding their phones with both hands.

 

[Eliot]

2023 Ineos Grenadier Prototype Review: Think Twice About That Wrangler

This rough and tumble not-quite-a-Land-Rover off-road SUV might make you reconsider a Wrangler.

www.motortrend.com

According to Motortrend, Ineos originally planned on using a 4 cylinder engine.

 

[pfshoen]

Motor Trend paints a pretty picture, comparing it favorably to Jeep and Defender. Marketing wise, it's hard to imagine a better start point.
The gang at Ineos are impressive.
I suppose Sir Jim could have launched himself into space like Branson and Bezos. Glad he's building the Gren instead.

 

[UnfrozenCaveman]

...still disappointed we won't get the oil burner ... understandable, but disappointing.

 

[evilfij]

What I am still struggling with is why get one over a wrangler (or 4runner)?

The V6 wrangler is pretty basic and very capable, especially with a manual. Same with the 4runner (no manual though). When everyone went out and bought complicated SUVs like rover’s current offerings, I went out and bought a 4 banger, 4x4, 5 speed tacoma.

 

[erover82]

why get one over a wrangler (or 4runner)?

A Jeep has always been built like a little tin can compared to Rovers, Gwagens, and LCs. It's readily apparent in durability, comfort, handling, cargo capacity, payload, and towing. The Grenadier appears built even tougher than those three.

In other words, it's like comparing a Stanley ratchet to a Hazet.

 

[rocky]

I struggled at the thought of paying $55k for an F150 I got last December. Never paid more than $35k before.

Justified the purchase to wife on basis that a new updated version of her ride is that number plus the $33k we spent in 1995 on the Discovery is, adjusted for inflation, well over $55k in today’s dollars.

 

[evilfij]

A Jeep has always been built like a little tin can compared to Rovers, Gwagens, and LCs. It's readily apparent in durability, comfort, handling, cargo capacity, payload, and towing. The Grenadier appears built even tougher than those three.

In other words, it's like comparing a Stanley ratchet to a Hazet.

I am not so sure. The JL in rubicon trim is well built and reasonably durable, D44 axles with lockers, interior is pretty spacious, similar in size to the old defender. That may have been true in the CJ/YJ/TJ era (although TJ rubis got D44) and they are small.

And Toyotas don’t break IME. Sure these options are not a TLC/G-wagen but they are much less money and much less complicated. I am on the fence, but I sort of need another automatic SUV that is new and not six figures. I am between the wrangler, the 4runner, the sequoia, and this is why I am following this thread as another potential option. As far as my daily, I will be keeping my taco.