Grenadier

erover82

erover82

Well-known member
RBBailey said:
I agree, and disagree:

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His take is too hard on Ineos IMO. It's extremely difficult to launch both a new automotive company and an automobile surrounded by expectations. Their strategy appears to be basically going after the wealthy enthusiasts and large budgeted fleets first. It's rumored, and I wouldn't be surprised, that they then pursue the smaller budgets with a more basic offering at a lower price point.
 
pl626

pl626

Member
SARTech said:
I have watched (I think ) everyone of his IG reviews and I feel he is just butt hurt that he didn't get in on the press promos and wasn't asked to be part of the design/roll out. That is my opinion.
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LOL, there's probably a lot of truth to that, but a lot of his criticisms are spot-on. Ineos should have released a basic model, perhaps they will eventually?
 
evilfij

evilfij

Well-known member
One observation on making a “base model” is that budget models are only available where demand is such that you can’t sell a higher spec (higher profit margin) vehicle.

I tried to get a base model LX600 (Lexus version of 300 series Land Cruiser) and apparently Lexus had made three of them. Not three versions, three vehicles. I wanted it, not to save money, but because I wanted the base suspension. And I have not seen a non-premium GX460 in years. SR Toyotas are thin on the ground etc. Only domestics where there is plenty of supply do you see base models available on the lot.

I guess what I am saying is that base model that in theory exists at launch but you can’t get (think some Tesla launches) is worse than not offering at all.

And I am a huge fan of base models, for example, my tacoma has negative options and I did not order the leather interior (or upgraded stereo or any non-functional extras other than paint color) on my GT3 (an immaterial extra cost in the scheme of things, I just don’t want it if I don’t need it).
 
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pfshoen

Well-known member
Sadly, no vehicle can be all things to all people.
This one is built to Ratcliffe's spec, which Ineos is betting has a large enough market to support it.
The Def can't be replaced in modern production. The term "spiritual successor" applies tho.
 
luckyjoe

luckyjoe

Well-known member
Callsign: KD2PXL
You have to realize that due to market safety regulations (whatever you call them, wherever you are located) the current Grenadier is the "base model". For example, the USA Grenadier will be the 2024 MY and include AEB and forward safety vision whatever you call it. This is just part of regulated highway safety requirements (e.g. also why manual transmissions have disappeared). Anything new will have these systems (in the USA at least).
 
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Siia109

Siia109

Well-known member
You can't get a pick up truck with out a computer screen in the dash - its just the way of the world. Most of the time he answers his own questions - i.e. why have the overhead switches when 90% of the buyers are not adding lights? Well that is why they have the Riccaro seats that he hates because thats what 90% of the buyers are going to want.

No one is buying even the '97 NAS D90's level of finish let alone the '94 or '95 in todays market except for the enthusiast and no business' plan for a new vehicle would be based on that. Maybe they will have special order vehicles - but for right now they need to make cars that make money and this is that.

To say Jeep gets it and the Grenadier doesn't - based off the fact that he doesn't like the level of finish in the car - I think you are right - there is a lot of butt hurt in that old man and he discredited himself.
 
erover82

erover82

Well-known member
Siia109 said:
To say Jeep gets it and the Grenadier doesn't - based off the fact that he doesn't like the level of finish in the car - I think you are right - there is a lot of butt hurt in that old man and he discredited himself.
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New Wrangler dash is nice. He's out of touch with Jeep and how wide their range has expanded both into expensive comfort and off-road focused variants. Then again, he's a Youtuber so there are incentives other than statement accuracy at play.

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pmatusov

pmatusov

Technical Excellence Contributor
Callsign: AK6PM
It is a good-looking cockpit.
But even on this photo it is obvious how low is the driver's seating position and how little is visible outside.
I rented one in Hawaii a few years ago and it was uninspiring at all.
 
RBBailey

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
erover82 said:
New Wrangler dash is nice. He's out of touch with Jeep and how wide their range has expanded both into expensive comfort and off-road focused variants. Then again, he's a Youtuber so there are incentives other than statement accuracy at play.

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Actually, I think that's the point he was making, isn't it? That Jeep has a wide scope of base models to high-end that are more expensive than even the Land Rovers or Grenadiers. Maybe I heard that wrong.
 
erover82

erover82

Well-known member
RBBailey said:
Actually, I think that's the point he was making, isn't it? That Jeep has a wide scope of base models to high-end that are more expensive than even the Land Rovers or Grenadiers. Maybe I heard that wrong.
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Yeah, could have been. Was driving out to a lake with it in the background.
 
WreckITFrank

WreckITFrank

Technical Excellence Contributor
erover82 said:
His take is too hard on Ineos IMO. It's extremely difficult to launch both a new automotive company and an automobile surrounded by expectations. Their strategy appears to be basically going after the wealthy enthusiasts and large budgeted fleets first. It's rumored, and I wouldn't be surprised, that they then pursue the smaller budgets with a more basic offering at a lower price point.
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I agree, to think it's another circa '83 land rover with enough to be safe enough for 2023 is not really marketable IMO. Like @evilfij said, while some enthusiasts would buy the most stripped down version, i cant see NA caring all that much for one....aside from us here that want to relive 4 years ago in a 2023 vehicle.
 
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pfshoen

Well-known member
WreckITFrank said:
jalopnik.com

Grenadier Flippers Make Ineos Sad

New customers are now banned from immediately reselling their Ineos Grenadier.
jalopnik.com jalopnik.com
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I don't see how Ineos could stop it in the USA. Although it's easy enough to check order lists for duplicate customers.
The flips should make the dealer cars look like a deal.
If the Gren makes money, Ineos will have options. Will take awhile for market for current model to be sated. Why introduce a variant when they're selling all they can build now? With cash in the bank, they can have some fun with models that don't make money or make less.
Once the Gren sees substantial hard use around the world, there will be plenty of ideas/user feedback to guide further model development.
Modern manufacturing tech may actually make it easier/cheaper for Ineos to set up production of different models without losing the economic advantages of volume production than it was for classic Defs.
My friend wants a Defender but getting his hands dirty isn't his strong point. Told him he needs a Gren.
Strong sales is only part of the recipe for success. At this point, it's anybody's guess as to how it all works out.
 
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TravelinLight

Well-known member
This is the same issue when record companiesd did not want you to sell your CDs after you purchased them. It is your property, and you are free to dispose of it how you see fit. They will not bat an eye if the value of the vehicle drops significantly.
 
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TX246

Member
I was told production was between 3000-3500 units per year. At the time (Feb) they had over 9 k reservations. I know those numbers have thinned out.

I am amazed how many people have no idea what I am talking about When I describe it. Clearly a Niche vehicle.

We just took delivery of a new G Wagon. Our salesperson was very excited to talk about the Grenadier. He firmly believesit will be a competitor for the G. Although a different price point, he thinks they will sell everyone they make. He fully thought it would be priced higher.

I can say after the drive, it is far better than I hoped. I thought I would be let down, but the fit and finish is pretty awesome.
 
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pfshoen

Well-known member
Article above says 3 new models are in the works, none are a more basic version of the Gren.
Shows you what I know.
 
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TX246

Member
I was told Ineos will build approximately 20,000 units to meet their working needs once they are able to meet customer demand.
 
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