Another R2.8 Install (long BH R380 version)

[donb]

did you torque the flywheel bolts when you installed? I am wondering if one came loose and is lodged in there. I just happened to notice that one was loose....and realized that they were not torqued to spec. confirmed by @MountainD on his as well.

I did and marked each with yellow paint mark. When I run the engine there isn't any weird noises in the BH area - just can't get it into gear. My thinking is that it is the throwout bearing. Of course it's the one part of the process I didn't take a picture of when installing :smackshead:

 

[donb]

also make sure that all of the clutch housing to trans bolts are all the way in. ive done this once and it fouled the backside of the flywheel , keeping the motor from spinning

I remember torqueing them and marking when installing but didn't take a pic and it was months ago when I did it. Motor starts and runs nicely - just won't go into gear. I put a scope in there thru the slave cylinder opening but couldn't get it positioned to see the throw out bearing.

 

[donb]

I do know that the Stumpy R380 with the 200TDI diesel and the stumpy bell housing will indeed require the stumpy throw out bearing. However, first he is using the long bell housing and not the stumpy--so I don't think so. Secondly, I was under the impression that this bearing is specifically for the stumpy with the stumpy bell housing/clutch. The R2.8 that I have, with the stumpy, came from Chad and had a throw out bearing--it also has a custom clutch release lever and the quickdraw bell housing. So I am guessing that is not the issue. The bolts on the flywheel are NOT tight--I even put out a PSA on that as I was surprised. If you did not torque that, then it could well be the cause if you have gotten this kit running. If not, then I am not sure that is why as it is doubtful one just fell out while not running and just sitting there. But who knows? I would start by taking off your floorboard, removing the clutch slave cylinder and peering through there...

I actally pulled the whole flywheel off as the clutch kit that Chad sent me originally didn't bolt up. I've had the floorboards out since the start which helped the bleeding of the slave a lot. I scoped inside and the parts I can see look good. Like I said the custom clutch release lever I pushed in using a homemade bracket with an old clutch rod welded to a long threaded bolt. When I put everything together I tripled check everything as I went thru this on a 200tdi install last year and the same thing happened (that ended up as the clutch plate not lining up perfectly due to the plastic alignment tool being off).

 

[Napalm00]

ah i see, id stick a spacer inside of the cup of the slave cyl under the pushrod and see if that helps. effectively makes the pushrod longer / more throw . too long and it will slip and never fully engage, too short and you can never fully disengage

 

[MountainD]

What a PITA! Sorry you are going through this. I would definitely either try the spacer idea above, and/or verify that the throw on the slave is actually happening correctly. Do you know what sort of throw you are getting?

 

[donb]

ah i see, id stick a spacer inside of the cup of the slave cyl under the pushrod and see if that helps. effectively makes the pushrod longer / more throw . too long and it will slip and never fully engage, too short and you can never fully disengage

What a PITA! Sorry you are going through this. I would definitely either try the spacer idea above, and/or verify that the throw on the slave is actually happening correctly. Do you know what sort of throw you are getting?

That was my thought too - that's why I rigged up an extra long "mechanical" threaded rod and screwed it in until it felt like the clutch release lever was in all the way/hard to turn. Put the tranny in gear and it wouldn't roll.

At this point I'll just pull it all apart - not horrible since I have all the floors out but will be a pain in the neck.

 

[Napalm00]

Ah gotcha, you sure that you aren't in-between gears or jammed on the tcase ?

 

[donb]

Ah gotcha, you sure that you aren't in-between gears or jammed on the tcase ?

mmm, I didn't think I was but it's worth testing some more before I start pulling big stuff apart.

 

[MountainD]

Or t case in neutral— common on new set up to have it not quite right

 

[donb]

Got the gearbox out yesterday. Here are pics from last night.

Tried to do both the tranny and LT230 as one but the tranny was coming out easily. I pulled the LT230 which wasn't bad and then it took me another 1.5 hours to get the R380 away from the engine. I had to rig a come-along as not amount of force would unseat it. Maybe something wasn't installed totally straight or was binding and causing the issue.

I'll post/take more pics as I get deeper into this.

 

[Napalm00]

I have no idea but is that the correct throw out ? They make a few different sizes Rover type. Also that edge of the case def shows how much effort was involved .

Maybe get some really long bolts that are partially threaded and cut the head off. Thread these into the engine and then use the unthreaded portion as a sliding jig to make sure that the trans and engine mate without binding.

I'd also remove the starter while testing

 

[donb]

I have no idea but is that the correct throw out ? They make a few different sizes Rover type. Also that edge of the case def shows how much effort was involved .

Maybe get some really long bolts that are partially threaded and cut the head off. Thread these into the engine and then use the unthreaded portion as a sliding jig to make sure that the trans and engine mate without binding.

I'd also remove the starter while testing

I did a number on the BH trying to get it off. I kept trying to pry but the tension on it was crazy. I installed a number of M10 long bolts to try and keep it straight and work around it but that wasn't getting far. I finally rigged the come-along and the amount of tension it took was crazy.

Today I took the BH off the R380 and rigged up a temp setup to see if I could test the clutch. I don't know what they hell is going on as it's working fine right when I installed the clutch slave.

The pics show the setup and in 2nd one you can see the prongs depressed (barely).

Not sure if this will work but here's a link to the video: https://www.icloud.com/photos/#027cT1hdGBrrIhw8XHFSuSl6g

I'll pull the clutch and clutch plate tomorrow and make sure they fit on the splines of the R380. I did that on original install but maybe I missed something. And then I'll take some measurements and check clearances. Really scratching my head on this.

 

[MountainD]

I’d bet you the biding is the rust developing on the splines in the above pictures. Although you always should be cautious of grease and oil around friction sources like brakes and clutches, I do put a light coat of grease on my splines for this very reason.

 

[donb]

I’d bet you the biding is the rust developing on the splines in the above pictures. Although you always should be cautious of grease and oil around friction sources like brakes and clutches, I do put a light coat of grease on my splines for this very reason.

I used the full package of grease that came with the clutch kit but it did sit for a long time. I'll clean all the friction areas up and grease a little more just to make sure. Is there a special grease I should use or can some of the red wheel bearing grease I have on the shelf be ok?

 

[MountainD]

Wheel bearing is decent as it is higher temp. Copper antisieze works too. Just light coat, no gloobs at all. You don't want it to push out and sling onto the clutch at all.

I may have seen something else that looked like rust on that one spline...however it would definitely cause a little issue separating the halves. The other thing is if the tranny was rotating down due to weight--that causes binding for sure too (or if supported, up too high). I always use guide pins in situ when I have to do it in situ, fairly long ones, typically several. But I haven't had that sort of issue separating--that is concerning a bit...

 

[donb]

Pulled the clutch off today to test fit on the tranny. It didn't want to slide and upon closer look the splines got messed up.

I thought I was careful as hell on install (did it on the floor of the garage) or maybe this happened when trying to take out? Maybe a little of both and I knicked the clutch splines a little on install so then it was up tight against the flywheel and wouldn't release with the clutch side. And when it wouldn't come off easily got more gnarled up.

I ordered a new clutch kit from Summit (Luk 50-5029) and will make sure things are greased and I have a number of guide pins in when installing.

 

[MountainD]

Great--so much nicer to know what happened then to sit there guessing! PITA, for sure, but at least you know!

 

[donb]

Great--so much nicer to know what happened then to sit there guessing! PITA, for sure, but at least you know!

Yup - but feel like a total rookie with that mistake.

 

[Napalm00]

I use a moly spline lube/engine assembly lube for this.

Bummer but at least you found it

 

[donb]

I use a moly spline lube/engine assembly lube for this.

Bummer but at least you found it

Yeah - felt like kicking myself a few times when I finally got it apart. Long M10 bolts are cheap vs hours of labor and it's worth just cutting the heads off 6 off them and having the tranny slide in that way.

I got it all together and took it for a test drive down the street. I still need to put a lot more together before I can take it for an extended drive but the short drive felt great.