Grenadier

[MountainD]

How it can possibly have much better gas mileage? Same cross-sectional area and curb weight as an LR4, higher drag coefficient than an LR4, same physics governing internal combustion engine. Both of these have gone to great lengths to keep the ICE running near its best efficiency - with gears, valve lift and timing in an 5.0 V8 and turbo in the B57. Your turbodiesel gas mileage in the 110 compares well with these numbers.

I appreciate your graphs and your points on the truck you have posed--and overall, I like the truck a lot. But "How can it possibly..." is a bit condescending way to try and make a point.

I do not know the drag coefficient of the Ineos (what is it, btw?) but I know the physics governing an ICE doesn't mean they all have same efficiency. And gearing optimization with an 8 speed should also make a difference. Seeing how I am getting 14mpg in my very heavily loaded, very boxy D90, with roof rack and external cage (and it probably has a worse drag coefficient) with a 2013 6.2L V8 LS motor with less optimal gearing (that has relatively similar outputs in the 400HP/400lbft crank) and the trucks 30 year design...yeah, surprised and I doubt I am the only one that your graphs surprised a little. That is all.

I get that folks are not buying it for MPG. And I am NOT bashing the truck---as I have said more than once, I like it a lot, and my only negativity has been on the MPG. I also commented early that I didn't think the target price point would be achieved (nor was it). Everything else I have said is that I totally dig the truck. I'm glad you like yours!

 

[evilfij]

How it can possibly have much better gas mileage? Same cross-sectional area and curb weight as an LR4, higher drag coefficient than an LR4, same physics governing internal combustion engine. Both of these have gone to great lengths to keep the ICE running near its best efficiency - with gears, valve lift and timing in an 5.0 V8 and turbo in the B57. Your turbodiesel gas mileage in the 110 compares well with these numbers.

It goes without explanation that driving slower equals better fuel economy. Even the U.S. government knew that when they enacted nationwide 55mph speed limit to deal with the oil crisis; it is hard to gauge due to lack of data for me, but my guess is that at a steady 55 mph the Grenadier will deliver 20-22 mpg.

It also horrifies me that, for the first time in my life, I wished for more traffic enforcement. With all these gizmos in the new cars telling the owners that there are vehicles left/right/in front of theirs and they need to do something (otherwise the gizmos will do that by themselves), I watched people looking at their phones going 86 mph, two car lengths behind the vehicles in front. My guess is that we'll see a bunch of reports soon of high-speed chain accidents - in perfect visibility in daylight.

My experience is that the new cars will slam on the brakes for you.

 

[vtlandrover]

I've said this before, but not on this site... prior to the pandemic, I did 30,000 miles/year of driving within Vermont. The State enacted a 'handsfree' law that began to gain some traction during 2019. Then the pandemic happened and for the first couple of weeks, I'd go for long walks including through my little town. It seemed that everyone had a phone in hand. Then the police were ordered off the roads and couldn't stop anyone except really eggregious operation. Once that reality was learned, the damned phone use mushroomed - to the point now, when I walk in Burlington, there are literally more people actively on their phones than not - in plain sight, making no effort to be covert. Two hands texting; phones in one hand and coffee in the other talking (even though most of the cars I see are new enough to have bluetooth); etc.

Auto-braking or not, it makes me anxious to drive!

 

[evilfij]

You think people on phones are bad, you should drive in Philly.

 

[pmatusov]

My experience is that the new cars will slam on the brakes for you.

I have to say that the Grenadier had never slammed brakes on me on this trip, and never warned me of the impending action. Either I was reasonable or that ADAS function is relatively tame.

 

[brdhmltn]

I backed out on the Grenadier reservation due in part to mileage. For $90k plus as a daily for me it really should be better. If it had been the diesel, I probably would have gone through with the order... the BMW diesels have a good reputation overseas.

I was getting 30-32 mpg with the TD6 in the range rover sport on long trips... 25-26 mpg around town. Same towing as Grenadier. I wanted a more technologically stripped down version of that. Gas mileage on top of the small tank, combined with the price, was what killed it for me. I hope others enjoy it a lot and I hope it's successful enough they will bring a diesel over.

 

[pmatusov]

I was getting 30-32 mpg with the TD6 in the range rover sport on long trips...

But I thought you got something else with that RRS besides great mileage...

 

[jymmiejamz]

I backed out on the Grenadier reservation due in part to mileage. For $90k plus as a daily for me it really should be better. If it had been the diesel, I probably would have gone through with the order... the BMW diesels have a good reputation overseas.

I was getting 30-32 mpg with the TD6 in the range rover sport on long trips... 25-26 mpg around town. Same towing as Grenadier. I wanted a more technologically stripped down version of that. Gas mileage on top of the small tank, combined with the price, was what killed it for me. I hope others enjoy it a lot and I hope it's successful enough they will bring a diesel over.

I really like the TDV6, but it really has turned out to be junk. My friends at multiple JLR stores are telling me the fix for the “incorrect DEF quality” message is now to replace the motor. Apparently too much blow by. It’s a shame because that motor is super quiet and has great power.

 

[WeBeCinYa]

What was the price supposed to be on these originally?

 

[MountainD]

According to post #48: “They originally wanted it around £30k-£40k. It’s going to be affordable compared to the new Defender”

 

[WeBeCinYa]

According to post #48: “They originally wanted it around £30k-£40k. It’s going to be affordable compared to the new Defender”

Yeah I’d be pissed if I was promised the range. I saw it in person the other day, and I have to say it looks decent, but the guy paid 90,000 and there’s no chance it’s worth that.

 

[FlyersFan76]

I really like the TDV6, but it really has turned out to be junk. My friends at multiple JLR stores are telling me the fix for the “incorrect DEF quality” message is now to replace the motor. Apparently too much blow by. It’s a shame because that motor is super quiet and has great power.

I had my Diesel RRS for over 80k miles. It was great but every so often the engine would go into limp mode because a "breather tube" would collapse. Turn engine off and start it again for it to go away.

 

[pmatusov]

I really like the TDV6, but it really has turned out to be junk.

Jimmy, remember I relayed it from Russian LR forums that both 2.7 and 3.0 TDV6 are garbage?

 

[TravelinLight]

Yeah I’d be pissed if I was promised the range. I saw it in person the other day, and I have to say it looks decent, but the guy paid 90,000 and there’s no chance it’s worth that.

That was one of my main issues. I did not complete the sale after driving it and sitting in the front and back seats. It just did not justify the price. They are trying to sell the "lifestyle" and I couldn't do it. I really liked the vehicle, a couple of quirks for me personally for a daily driver. I just could not somach the final proce tag.

 

[pmatusov]

That was one of my main issues. I did not complete the sale after driving it and sitting in the front and back seats. It just did not justify the price. They are trying to sell the "lifestyle" and I couldn't do it. I really liked the vehicle, a couple of quirks for me personally for a daily driver. I just could not somach the final proce tag.

LOL.
They are not selling the "lifestyle," it is you who is looking for one.
If anything, INEOS is pretty mute compared to the shameless Land Rover advertisement based entirely on the past.

 

[FlyersFan76]

LOL.
They are not selling the "lifestyle," it is you who is looking for one.
If anything, INEOS is pretty mute compared to the shameless Land Rover advertisement based entirely on the past.

Like this ad? Am I reading into this or is LR saying the new Defender will run circles around the real one?

 

[TravelinLight]

LOL.
They are not selling the "lifestyle," it is you who is looking for one.
If anything, INEOS is pretty mute compared to the shameless Land Rover advertisement based entirely on the past.

Well the dealer in Colorado Springs mentioned lifestyle no less than 5 times during my Q&A session after my test drive. The technical answers were not there on the wiring harness issue or the questions on service, they focused on their build out for the Lifestyle. But I guess you know it all.

 

[pmatusov]

Well the dealer in Colorado Springs mentioned lifestyle no less than 5 times during my Q&A session after my test drive. The technical answers were not there on the wiring harness issue or the questions on service, they focused on their build out for the Lifestyle. But I guess you know it all.

Dealers vary. San Diego local dealer so far appears to behave as Land Rover dealer did 25 years ago - mostly quiet, but organizing owners off-road rides.
On both test drives I attended, I have not heard or seen written a word "lifestyle."

 

[jymmiejamz]

Jimmy, remember I relayed it from Russian LR forums that both 2.7 and 3.0 TDV6 are garbage?

I do, but also from memory that was catastrophic engine failures. This issue would go totally unnoticed in a market without the SCR catalyst. They run and drive fine, they just set a fault every 500 miles. I’ll give you better explanation over a whiskey by the campfire next time. I think I know why this happens

 

[jymmiejamz]

Well the dealer in Colorado Springs mentioned lifestyle no less than 5 times during my Q&A session after my test drive. The technical answers were not there on the wiring harness issue or the questions on service, they focused on their build out for the Lifestyle. But I guess you know it all.

I haven’t gotten that vibe from what little I know about Ineos, but I also wouldn’t be at all surprised. Rivian, for example, is definitely trying to sell a lifestyle and they embrace that as part of their brand.

Are they spritzing the showrooms with a signature scent like JLR does?