Grenadier

[erover82]

New Land Cruiser slaps New Defender around. Something like 300hp in a four cylinder turbo hybrid, traditional frame, smaller overall size, and a base model that looks like it will be easy to modify. Only problem is it will be way too popular. It starts at $55-$60k.

Was underwhelmed, personally. Seems like a marginal upgrade over a 4Runner. If I want a larger platform, barn doors, more cargo capacity, decent tow rating, spare tire where it should be, solid axles, larger engine, and/or a pickup bed, I'm stilling looking at a Grenadier or other midsize truck.

 

[vtlandrover]

New Land Cruiser slaps New Defender around. Something like 300hp in a four cylinder turbo hybrid, traditional frame, smaller overall size, and a base model that looks like it will be easy to modify. Only problem is it will be way too popular. It starts at $55-$60k.

Depends on your definition of 'slapping around.' If the idea is to appeal at a price point, then they've nailed it. But if you're suggesting that it's objectively "better" than the current Defender - or on par with the out-going US spec Land Cruiser - I respectfully disagree.

By way of background, I sold a 2011 Land Cruiser to buy my '22 Defender. The "Crusher" as it was known, to this day is the nicest 'thing' I've ever owned... the build quality was through the roof. The glass was 2x the thickness of the Sequoia; the frame was 2.5x the thickness. There was just enough "tech" to be livable, but had a naturally aspirated and dead-reliable V8. It was built to be a legit 25-year vehicle. Even though mine was an original Vermont car (meaning exposed to salt galore), when I got it in 2018, there were a already a dozen 2011 (i.e. 7 model-year-old) Tacomas out behind the dealership awaiting new frames under the Toyota recall, many of which had wooden beds instead of bodies because those had long since rotted away. My 2011 Land Cruiser had a hint of corrosion here and there on some of the wheel arch retainer hardware, but that was it.

Toyota introduced yesterday something they're calling a Land Cruiser and the journalists are all saying that it's the best thing since sliced bread PLUS it's $30,000 cheaper than the outgoing model. Let's face it - Toyota is a business and are not altruistic to bring us what we want for less money. The new one seems more like a really nice 4Runner, but with a similarly paltry towing capacity (capped at 6,000 lbs.) Although I haven't driven, let alone seen one, my prediction is that a 2024 Land Cruiser WILL NOT pass a Vermont state inspection in as little as 10 years - because they're at the same price point of the current model year Tacoma (a TRD Pro is $53,000.00), which has shite-quality steel throughout. It simply cannot be regarded, apples to apples, as a 200-Series Land Cruiser.

Another comparison: two years ago, I sold my kid's 2006 Volvo XC70 - again, a local car throughout its life - for a 2019 Forester. The last time I changed the oil on the Volvo at 200,000 miles, I couldn't believe how clean the entire undercarriage of the Volvo was. At 25,000 miles, the Subaru just got new brakes, rotors, and brake lines because it would not pass inpection because of rust. That's right: a 4-model-year-old vehicle is uninspectable in my state because of the extent of corrosion caused by salt. The core concern is the quality of steel and preparation, which is non-existant on vehicles at this price point. I guess my point is, you get what you pay for and while it's exciting that there's a reasonably priced, true body-on-frame offering, I wish Toyota named it what it is: a Prado.

 

[mgreenspan]

Depends on your definition of 'slapping around.' If the idea is to appeal at a price point, then they've nailed it. But if you're suggesting that it's objectively "better" than the current Defender - or on par with the out-going US spec Land Cruiser - I respectfully disagree.

By way of background, I sold a 2011 Land Cruiser to buy my '22 Defender. The "Crusher" as it was known, to this day is the nicest 'thing' I've ever owned... the build quality was through the roof. The glass was 2x the thickness of the Sequoia; the frame was 2.5x the thickness. There was just enough "tech" to be livable, but had a naturally aspirated and dead-reliable V8. It was built to be a legit 25-year vehicle. Even though mine was an original Vermont car (meaning exposed to salt galore), when I got it in 2018, there were a already a dozen 2011 (i.e. 7 model-year-old) Tacomas out behind the dealership awaiting new frames under the Toyota recall, many of which had wooden beds instead of bodies because those had long since rotted away. My 2011 Land Cruiser had a hint of corrosion here and there on some of the wheel arch retainer hardware, but that was it.

Toyota introduced yesterday something they're calling a Land Cruiser and the journalists are all saying that it's the best thing since sliced bread PLUS it's $30,000 cheaper than the outgoing model. Let's face it - Toyota is a business and are not altruistic to bring us what we want for less money. The new one seems more like a really nice 4Runner, but with a similarly paltry towing capacity (capped at 6,000 lbs.) Although I haven't driven, let alone seen one, my prediction is that a 2024 Land Cruiser WILL NOT pass a Vermont state inspection in as little as 10 years - because they're at the same price point of the current model year Tacoma (a TRD Pro is $53,000.00), which has shite-quality steel throughout. It simply cannot be regarded, apples to apples, as a 200-Series Land Cruiser.

Another comparison: two years ago, I sold my kid's 2006 Volvo XC70 - again, a local car throughout its life - for a 2019 Forester. The last time I changed the oil on the Volvo at 200,000 miles, I couldn't believe how clean the entire undercarriage of the Volvo was. At 25,000 miles, the Subaru just got new brakes, rotors, and brake lines because it would not pass inpection because of rust. That's right: a 4-model-year-old vehicle is uninspectable in my state because of the extent of corrosion caused by salt. The core concern is the quality of steel and preparation, which is non-existant on vehicles at this price point. I guess my point is, you get what you pay for and while it's exciting that there's a reasonably priced, true body-on-frame offering, I wish Toyota named it what it is: a Prado.

But it isn’t even a Prado. It’s an entirely different series. Prado is on par with the GX. This is an in between 4Runner and Prado like you said. A price point.

 

[WreckITFrank]

so the GX550 and the new LC are not the same with different cladding? The Grenadier has a larger trunk space than the GX, which is surprising but likely due to the shape. Im a fan of the grenadier, GX550, and the new LC. But the new LC is regarded as a 4runner in my book, and the community will eventually treat it as such im guessing. Right now I have a grenadier on pre order, but the GX550 in the right trim has me on notice.

 

[mgreenspan]

so the GX550 and the new LC are not the same with different cladding? The Grenadier has a larger trunk space than the GX, which is surprising but likely due to the shape. Im a fan of the grenadier, GX550, and the new LC. But the new LC is regarded as a 4runner in my book, and the community will eventually treat it as such im guessing. Right now I have a grenadier on pre order, but the GX550 in the right trim has me on notice.

GX550 is longer and taller. It loses some load space due to the third row that goes down into the floor. Grenadier has none. The new LC and GX do share the same frame platform, but are not the same size.

 

[TravelinLight]

But ... boy is it ugly. I don't see its popularity as a detriment - let the CB hordes take it.

Couldn't agree more. The new LC is absolutely hideous.

 

[Eliot]

What kind of block heater gets the heated steering wheel and seats going?

I don't think it's necessary. The engine is at operating temperature within 60 seconds or so. That was my experience even when it was quite cold out, -20 to -40.

 

[RBBailey]

Depends on your definition of 'slapping around.' If the idea is to appeal at a price point, then they've nailed it. But if you're suggesting that it's objectively "better" than the current Defender - or on par with the out-going US spec Land Cruiser - I respectfully disagree.

By way of background, I sold a 2011 Land Cruiser to buy my '22 Defender. The "Crusher" as it was known, to this day is the nicest 'thing' I've ever owned... the build quality was through the roof. The glass was 2x the thickness of the Sequoia; the frame was 2.5x the thickness. There was just enough "tech" to be livable, but had a naturally aspirated and dead-reliable V8. It was built to be a legit 25-year vehicle. Even though mine was an original Vermont car (meaning exposed to salt galore), when I got it in 2018, there were a already a dozen 2011 (i.e. 7 model-year-old) Tacomas out behind the dealership awaiting new frames under the Toyota recall, many of which had wooden beds instead of bodies because those had long since rotted away. My 2011 Land Cruiser had a hint of corrosion here and there on some of the wheel arch retainer hardware, but that was it.

Toyota introduced yesterday something they're calling a Land Cruiser and the journalists are all saying that it's the best thing since sliced bread PLUS it's $30,000 cheaper than the outgoing model. Let's face it - Toyota is a business and are not altruistic to bring us what we want for less money. The new one seems more like a really nice 4Runner, but with a similarly paltry towing capacity (capped at 6,000 lbs.) Although I haven't driven, let alone seen one, my prediction is that a 2024 Land Cruiser WILL NOT pass a Vermont state inspection in as little as 10 years - because they're at the same price point of the current model year Tacoma (a TRD Pro is $53,000.00), which has shite-quality steel throughout. It simply cannot be regarded, apples to apples, as a 200-Series Land Cruiser.

Another comparison: two years ago, I sold my kid's 2006 Volvo XC70 - again, a local car throughout its life - for a 2019 Forester. The last time I changed the oil on the Volvo at 200,000 miles, I couldn't believe how clean the entire undercarriage of the Volvo was. At 25,000 miles, the Subaru just got new brakes, rotors, and brake lines because it would not pass inpection because of rust. That's right: a 4-model-year-old vehicle is uninspectable in my state because of the extent of corrosion caused by salt. The core concern is the quality of steel and preparation, which is non-existant on vehicles at this price point. I guess my point is, you get what you pay for and while it's exciting that there's a reasonably priced, true body-on-frame offering, I wish Toyota named it what it is: a Prado.

OOooh... I didn't know about the weak steel. That will be interesting to watch. Oregon only uses deicer once or twice a year, and only on certain roads.

I am curious about the placement closer to the 4Runner, and whether that will mean a big shift in the customer base. I like that it is smaller, but maybe they should have just stayed small-ish. Overall, way too many full sized trucks on the road.

I have to admit... I like the looks, but the rear end hangs out too much, and is overall kind of boring. I needs a better tailgate as well. It kind of looks like the designers and engineers gave up after the rear axle.

I never should have sold my first car: '72 Volvo wagon. ...or my second car... '86 Saab 900. I finally learned my lesson when I sold my '65 Series, and went and bought it back 3.5 years later.

 

[vtlandrover]

I don't think it's necessary. The engine is at operating temperature within 60 seconds or so. That was my experience even when it was quite cold out, -20 to -40.

I was being facetious... what I meant about her car warming up in the garage is the INTERIOR being warm for her. Being a hybrid electric, she can program the ambient temp inside the car to be warm without starting the ICE via an app on her phone. I don't envision her doing it for an hour to get it up to 70 degrees, as her goal is efficiency, but anything north of 10 would feel balmy come mid-winter.

 

[vtlandrover]

OOooh... I didn't know about the weak steel. That will be interesting to watch. Oregon only uses deicer once or twice a year, and only on certain roads.

I never should have sold my first car: '72 Volvo wagon. ...or my second car... '86 Saab 900. I finally learned my lesson when I sold my '65 Series, and went and bought it back 3.5 years later.

I (HEART) Oregon! As I mentioned on the 'other site,' I just shipped this beauty - a 4 cyl manual ('08) - from just west of Portland. ZERO corrosion. It, like my Land Rovers, will go into hibernation by mid-Oct, as it'd be a shame to expose it to even one winter. Singe cabs are all but extinct around here.

Funny you mention your first cars... I was brought home from the hospital in a '73 Volvo, which my Mom traded for an '83 Saab 900.

 

[WeBeCinYa]

What in the actual hell is this bumper? Is this serious?

 

[WreckITFrank]

I'm pretty sure that's the required aus or UK bumper.

 

[vtlandrover]

Aesthetics aside, it seems a great place to sit to tie my boots.

 

[luckyjoe]

Yes, the EU & UK get the big plastic bumper. USA & Oz get steel.

 

[evilfij]

In my quest to acquire all the Toyotas/Lexus so when Frank buys a Grenadier he has things to compare it to, I picked this up a week ago.

I like the GX460 better because it will last until I die, but hey, you can’t find a new LX600 to buy and I did so …. Guessing 2024 gets hybrid … barf. Also the silver makes the grill look less bad and this is as base model as you can get (can’t actually buy the base model they make a handful) as it does not have the height adjustable suspension. Roof bars are on my couch. I don’t know how to use it, but I managed to drive it home from the dealer less than a mile with only minimal binging and warnings. The interior is Range Rover nice (aniline leather).

I am NOT doing this to it

 

[mgreenspan]

In my quest to acquire all the Toyotas/Lexus so when Frank buys a Grenadier he has things to compare it to, I picked this up a week ago.

View attachment 28096

I like the GX460 better because it will last until I die, but hey, you can’t find a new LX600 to buy and I did so …. Guessing 2024 gets hybrid … barf. Also the silver makes the grill look less bad and this is as base model as you can get (can’t actually buy the base model they make a handful) as it does not have the height adjustable suspension. Roof bars are on my couch. I don’t know how to use it, but I managed to drive it home from the dealer less than a mile with only minimal binging and warnings. The interior is Range Rover nice (aniline leather).

I am NOT doing this to it

I like everything about the LX except for the front grill. They’ve made a more hideous catfish grill than Toyota since the 2016 model.

I am glad that the new GX550 and the new LC have eliminated the trend. I think you’ll like the LX regardless.

 

[evilfij]

I like everything about the LX except for the front grill. They’ve made a more hideous catfish grill than Toyota since the 2016 model.

I am glad that the new GX550 and the new LC have eliminated the trend. I think you’ll like the LX regardless.

The grill is a bit much, but in silver (or black if you get one with a black grill) it blends in enough to be non-offensive (at least to me). I am getting used to the LX as I have driven it. The tech is not that bad although baffling (there is a 3 hour 24 minute YouTube video from north side lexus that explains everything which was very helpful). I still think the GX460 is better (and half the money or thereabouts), the GX550 should be good, but the V8 in the 460 is so nice and, unlike all the LX570 it has carplay and a normal suspension. The 22/23 GX460 is where it’s at for me. Or a 4runner. Probably will buy one of those next year. I want a non-premium TRD OR in white. No sunroof, cloth seats etc.

 

[luckyjoe]

GX design cues.

 

[TJS]

Jeep Wrangler 4xe Hybrid Accounted For 38% Of All Wrangler Sales Last Quarter | Carscoops

Shoppers love the hybrid Wrangler thanks to the impressive power and torque it has

www.carscoops.com

Given the volume of sales, not to mention resale values, Jeep has pretty well nailed it in the US.

Test driving a new Rubicon the other day left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Kinda like cheap well cocktails at happy hour. I always wish I'd ordered something nicer. The Grenadier I tested was much nicer to be in and felt subjectively more roomy.

As to limited range, I can tell you that my wife loves her Q5 hybrid because she commutes 1.2 miles each way to work - meaning, she's all electric throughout the work week and is not limited on the weekend for longer trips thanks to the ICE.

Unless you were driving a worn out bigblock rustbucket before, I personally can't see the advantage of a hybrid vehicle for 12 miles a week. That's not going to make any kind of dent in someone's carbon footprint at the expense of added complexity and cost as well as the manufacturing penalty. Hasn't much of the EU begun banning sales of hybrid vehicles because they aren't substantially cleaner than a traditional ICE vehicle in real world usage as many never even get plugged in? Pound for pound generating electricity with fossil fuels is a wash as well. You've got to have a "green" source of electrons and those are limited.

I would consider retrofitting an electric motor into one of our older vehicles rather than another engine rebuild, but only once we see an advance in battery capacity with a corresponding reduction in weight. I still wouldn't use it for long distance travel and would limit myself to round trips with a total less than the hypothetical maximum range.

 

[rocky]

Prius style hybrids are dead over in Europe. It’s plug ins that are favored.
But the US size and travel distances can be much greater. Especially outside the work week.
We’re much better suited to Prius style hybrids than England or the EEC.