Bring a Trailer Defender Auction Criticism

JimC

Super Moderator
Staff member
In some cases I’d like to be complimentary, as in this auction where the seller let this nice Santana go for very reasonable money. l think most of the crimes at BaT are just reserves that are too high for what is being offered, this guy was at least in sync with the market and had realistic expectations:

 

JimC

Super Moderator
Staff member
If I had been selling this Turkish-built heap, I would have been massively thrilled to get 45k for it. The cage mod is a matter of taste... I guess. But there is so much home-DIY stuff in evidence here that I just want to run away. In this case, you can’t blame the seller, it’s not their fault someone was willing to pay 45k for it. I do think BaT should have specified it was a Turkish-built truck though. You have to be squinting to see “Otokar“ on the VIN plate, and you have to know what you’re looking for.

 

JimC

Super Moderator
Staff member
I think the seller got all the money for this bed liner-covered 300tdi-swapped RHD Tithonus. It’s hard to tell if they went a little thin on the liner, whether the panels are just really smashed up, or something else. In the distance shots it looks like thinly-applied primer. Oh well, there’s an a$$ for every disco-sourced seat.

 

1of40

Well-known member
In fairness to BaT I feel they have a large number of operational balls in the air at any given time making it pretty tough to meet the broad range of approval and disapproval. But on balance I feel they’re doing a pretty good job. There’s certainly nothing else out there doing any better that I’m aware of. If I had a Rover I wanted to sell I’d certainly give it a try. I admire the fact that you know inside a week what’s what.
 

JimC

Super Moderator
Staff member
In fairness to BaT I feel they have a large number of operational balls in the air at any given time making it pretty tough to meet the broad range of approval and disapproval. But on balance I feel they’re doing a pretty good job. There’s certainly nothing else out there doing any better that I’m aware of. If I had a Rover I wanted to sell I’d certainly give it a try. I admire the fact that you know inside a week what’s what.
I agree, and I like the site overall. I just don’t want to be super-critical in the comments section otherwise I’ll just look like a commenter from hell.

But I figure BaT is going to keep their auction pages accessible for a long time and as long as the links don’t break then this could become a good repository of criticism cross-referenced with the vehicles in question.

like I said, I’m not trying to bash every truck, there are pluses and minuses to all of them, and much of the time I’m more critical of the apparent asking price than the truck itself. Since much of this is armchair-quarterbacking Id prefer to do it here where hopefully it will allow for some interesting and/or colorful dialogue.
 

rocky

Well-known member
There has definitely been considerable rebuilding/updating/refreshing/restomodding of this vehicle. Heck it's the first TS5 with an auto box that I've ever seen.

I'm surprised that it made it through customs, as seller says, post conversion to LHD but that was in 2012. The advert may be poorly crafted, but I'm not ready to infer that the engine was also installed prior to importation. It was a simpler time for imports, when the laws may have been the same but the regulations were not applied so strictly..... but was inspection really that lax back then?

I would not bid on this vehicle prior to being satisfied it's 100% legal following review of all the documentation of its importation and modification, but that's the same standard that should be applied to every imported vehicle.
 

xplorutah

Well-known member
I think the seller got all the money for this bed liner-covered 300tdi-swapped RHD Tithonus. It’s hard to tell if they went a little thin on the liner, whether the panels are just really smashed up, or something else. In the distance shots it looks like thinly-applied primer. Oh well, there’s an a$$ for every disco-sourced seat.

Hmm, these guys are local to me. They list a lot on BaT. In this instance it says "bid to" meaning it wasn't sold. High bidder got lucky his bid wasn't enough. These guys don't take pictures because it would scare people. I haven't bothered to go look at their stuff, but have had an interaction with them. If you know what you are talking about you are quick to learn, they don't.
 
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Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
There has definitely been considerable rebuilding/updating/refreshing/restomodding of this vehicle. Heck it's the first TS5 with an auto box that I've ever seen.

I'm surprised that it made it through customs, as seller says, post conversion to LHD but that was in 2012. The advert may be poorly crafted, but I'm not ready to infer that the engine was also installed prior to importation. It was a simpler time for imports, when the laws may have been the same but the regulations were not applied so strictly..... but was inspection really that lax back then?

I would not bid on this vehicle prior to being satisfied it's 100% legal following review of all the documentation of its importation and modification, but that's the same standard that should be applied to every imported vehicle.
Drive overs from Canada, especially after hours, are pretty much based on the paperwork submitted.
 

JimC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hmm, these guys are local to me. They list a lot on BaT. In this instance it says "bid to" meaning it wasn't sold. High bidder got lucky his bid wasn't enough. These guys don't take pictures because it would scare people. I haven't bothered to go look at their stuff, but have had an interaction with them. If you know what you are talking about you are quick to learn, they don't.
Oh, my mistake, that was a Reserve not Met. Which in this case makes sense, I have no idea why someone would pay that much, notwithstanding more.
 

acheck

Well-known member
i have found that the defender audience on BaT is incredibly unsavvy.

clean and "honest" NAS trucks are underbid and backyard restoration ROWs are overbid. uneducated bidders with little desire to be educated.

although, i suspect that a variation of this thread exists on nearly every niche brand enthusiast forum.
 

javelinadave

Administrator
Staff member
I just read thru the comments on the original auction that was posted confirming that selling a Defender on BAT is a dumpster fire in the making.
 
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JimC

Super Moderator
Staff member

This is prima facie evidence of Adam’s point above. This RHD twin-carb 110 with a grimy interior but fresh paint and a bunch of mods from a vendor at a Land Rover show pulled in $31k and people were thinking it was a steal and saying stuff about how the shade of blue shaved 15 off the selling price.

Nonsense, it met the reserve because the seller knew the deal. This was a robust price for this britpart-catalog body-on refurbishment.

As far as value for the money goes, I always worry about very fresh paint - who knows how good the body panels are, or even the paint job for that matter. So many sanded or incorrect rivets. The paint on the filler and windshield frame to bulkhead seal makes my face hurt. Little things like the vertical window push-strips still being limestone color irk me. To me this truck screams “don’t buy sight unseen” just for prudence sake, but some breathless fans are shouting that it’s well-bought. No, it was well-sold.
 

cameron

New member

This is prima facie evidence of Adam’s point above. This RHD twin-carb 110 with a grimy interior but fresh paint and a bunch of mods from a vendor at a Land Rover show pulled in $31k and people were thinking it was a steal and saying stuff about how the shade of blue shaved 15 off the selling price.

Nonsense, it met the reserve because the seller knew the deal. This was a robust price for this britpart-catalog body-on refurbishment.

As far as value for the money goes, I always worry about very fresh paint - who knows how good the body panels are, or even the paint job for that matter. So many sanded or incorrect rivets. The paint on the filler and windshield frame to bulkhead seal makes my face hurt. Little things like the vertical window push-strips still being limestone color irk me. To me this truck screams “don’t buy sight unseen” just for prudence sake, but some breathless fans are shouting that it’s well-bought. No, it was well-sold.
Full disclosure - I bought my 110 on BaT after about 10 years comprised of various levels of "active looking" and "passive interest". I enjoy BaT for the variety of listings - its amusing to see what's out there and what people are paying in different automotive segments.

The first thought I had though regarding this listing was "spray and pray". New paint job and hope buyers don't know what they are really looking for.

Here's mine. Did I overpay? (that's a rhetorical question) Probably. However I wasn't interested in something sight unseen and was happy to find something with minimal rust issues (doors do need some work) that was local to me so I could check it out prior to bidding. I will admit that I did get caught up in the auction fever and went a few thousand above my pre-determined maximum but that's my lesson learned.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994-land-rover-defender-110-county-4/
 

1of40

Well-known member

This is prima facie evidence of Adam’s point above. This RHD twin-carb 110 with a grimy interior but fresh paint and a bunch of mods from a vendor at a Land Rover show pulled in $31k and people were thinking it was a steal and saying stuff about how the shade of blue shaved 15 off the selling price.

Nonsense, it met the reserve because the seller knew the deal. This was a robust price for this britpart-catalog body-on refurbishment.

As far as value for the money goes, I always worry about very fresh paint - who knows how good the body panels are, or even the paint job for that matter. So many sanded or incorrect rivets. The paint on the filler and windshield frame to bulkhead seal makes my face hurt. Little things like the vertical window push-strips still being limestone color irk me. To me this truck screams “don’t buy sight unseen” just for prudence sake, but some breathless fans are shouting that it’s well-bought. No, it was well-sold.
You are spot on JC but ur also a 1%’er. There are just a ton of folks that simply don’t know what questions to ask and make many assumptions. Ideal for low-conscience sellers.
 

chuckc4

Well-known member
To be fair, a lot of people make unhelpful comments on BAT, seemingly just to see their screen name. I think many potential buyers ignore the comments because they can't be bothered reading all of them. Many comments are just ass hat conjecture, leading to actual helpful comments being burried. Obviously, there are buyers on BAT that have money to burn and could care less about what a vehicle needs or what it's actual provenance is. That is why there will continue to be "snake oil salesman" and why "buyer beware" will continue to be good advice.
 

JimC

Super Moderator
Staff member

I'm really happy that this sold for more than the blue meanie above. It should have just by virtue of being LHD, but you‘re rarely wrong betting against peoples’ good taste. I think the market rewarded this truck for being seemingly unembellished and honestly-presented.

The only defects with this truck appear to be quibbles. There is much to address, but there is nothing that appears to stand between now and another 100k miles of use. The buyer can re-skin the doors if desired, spend an evening re-covering the seats, and chase lots of other little projects if they want, but they’re not going to have to do any chassis welding any time soon. How nice.

It was refreshing to see a lack of fresh waxoyl, ill-conceived and ill-executed alcantara accents, and VINs of questionable provenance. Bonus points for scars and bash marks on the bottom of the diff.
 

1of40

Well-known member
It’s interesting/odd that there are no Land Rovers on BaT currently. My first thought was that maybe they are cooling their jets post the Td5 auction.
 

javelinadave

Administrator
Staff member
It’s interesting/odd that there are no Land Rovers on BaT currently. My first thought was that maybe they are cooling their jets post the Td5 auction.
This or Defender sellers are sick of their comment section nonsense. Has anybody clicked on the "Flag as not constructive" link? Does it do anything?
 
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