MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
Bet it lost oil pressure, seizing bearing.
1991 200TDI to R2.8--couple remaining questions
- Thread starter MountainD
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MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
I whole heartedly agree! There is one right off the DOC— you can see it in post 194 here: https://nas-row.com/index.php?threa...e-remaining-questions.4882/page-10#post-56783
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MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
I’m not too concerned. Not sure if you have driven one (heck, you may own 5!) but the common rail is pretty smooth. I shot this this morning on a cold engine, worst case scenario at idle. Vibrations or stupid low— it’s one of the good things about the engine. Also, full rubber isolators on all hangers, nothing solid mounted.
That is pretty smooth.
That rear section looks really good. Any audio clips of the sound?On Friday, I tacked up the exhaust complete and hung it overnight. With fresh eyes on Saturday morning, I knew I had to change several things that would change everything. Argh. Do it, or it’ll bug me forever. So ground everything apart, started again. Finished late last night. Some notes on install.
1). Stainless (I used 304 SS) dulls tools and wrecks blades. Spend the dough, get a dedicated stainless blade for metal chop saw. My favorite tool by far for exhaust work. I also have steel and aluminum blades, worth every dime. Metal chop saws spin slower than abrasive wheel saws—they are not interchangable. Cuts are precise, don’t get hot, and are quick.
2) Just tack full mock up in place before committing to welding. Yeah, more work, but less work too if you change anything.
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3) Use proper wire or rods. I used specific SS to SS wire in my MIG gun. I was gonna borrow a tig, but finally just decided to not do that. Another time.
4) Use proper shielding gas. Which I didn’t have and knew I wasn’t gonna use. I just used my AR/CO2 which I knew would work, but not nearly as good as a tri-blend. Back feeding the setup with AR is ideal too, but I didn’t have the capability for that and I only had about 4 burn-throughs that I fixed. To do it over again, I would have gotten a bottle of the tri-blend gas.
5) To bend the 1/2” SS rod for hangers, I used a vice and 4’ section of black iron. Never underestimate leverage.
6) Forget using flanges and bolts. I ditched every one. Use V-Band clamps.
7) Never use an impact gun on stainless bolts as they can and do gall and freeze in place—either direction—fubarring itself. I knew this but ignored my own advice due to my tendinitis and expediency due to how many on/off cycles I did during mock up. I ruined a v-band clamp. Argh. See! Told me so. I will wait to do the muffler section replacement. Running the DOC and straight pipe for now.
Welding SS is not the same as regular steel—not even close if you don’t use the right gas. I knew this going in as I’ve done it before. It’ll make you feel like a noob and my welds are not pretty nor did I expect that. But I did try and be very cautious to get deep penetration through loads of practice And to dial in voltage and wire speed.
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I still need to finish wrapping some sections, but it’s in and done. I did cut off all the slip together sleeves that the exhaust kit came with, leaving just the first 1/8” (barely, just the slight beginning of the flair) to provide a nice aligned union surface to prevent burn through. Worked great. My only burn-through were on butted sections where I needed to shorten sections. When I add the muffler section I will probably shorten the exhaust about an inch…or maybe not. I exited it at the corner as that is the highest spot.
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(I need to work on that chassis and body paint too! But hey, haven’t had the truck that long and my list is still huge…)
Btw love how you set up the battery area. Yeah I keep looking at it for inspiration.
Only have the one lol. Learning as I go. In my experience at least one flex joint by the motor or after the turbo always helps. I have to take mine back to the shop to add one to the system. The OM617 is smooth but not anywhere close as your motor is. That’s Bentley smooth brother.
MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
I think the oil filled mounts help too, but I know these motors in general are smooth...
MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
Thought I should give an update on a couple things. One: Cooling. Electric fans don't cut it--not at altitude, definitely not towing. Around town? Fine. Winter? Fine. 100F while going 75 on freeway at 5500' up grades? nope. Going into the hills on I70 while 95F? no. It isn't bleeding. It isn't radiator as I have even foolishly switched from my set up to the Allisport thinking it may solve it. It doesn't. For those that follow on Facebook too, it isn't a Defender thing. Folks all over the country have issues when it is hot under load. They all switched to mechanical fan. Solved. There are now 4 D90/D110's that I know of that have either switched or are switching and a few builders now only use Mech. So I installed one and I have been running fine WITHOUT a shroud even, although I am building a shroud this winter. right now I am running without issue with no shroud in winter with a 1/2 closed muffler on the front. SOOOOOOO.... IMHO, electric fans unless you are in flat grounds or cooler areas, don't cut it if you want hills in your future. YMMV and do what you want, my goal isn't to convince anyone, just give my observations.
Second update. The Power Steering pump. So those that want to run AC use the mid mount bracket. That moves your Power steering pump down to low position. However, even if you don't do that, you probably STILL need to rotate the pump inlet to get the hose barb positioned to where it needs to be. Mine, as you rotate it, got tighter and tighter eventually breaking. Demm's came loose and leaked (mine also seeps). There is no need for this. Get rid of that barb. Rotate it and pull the frigger out--it is a press fit with an o-ring. What is left is a smooth bore, pretty decent size too for a 3/8" NPT tap. So I started the tap (my tap was a little long and would bottom out) and then I chopped off the nose of the tap (tap cost $10 amazon) and I wasn't worried about losing temper since pump is aluminum:
So I cut the tap, and ground the point to be slightly tapered and cleaned up the thread with a file and finished tapping:
I am running a -10AN return line (look, I like AN hoses, even for low pressure return lines....don't judge..." So I just ran a swivel -10AN to 3/8" NPT. this all worked very well. I am not putting it in yet as the pump is now a "spare" but it is ready to go in and if I were to do a build from scratch I would do this right away and screw that janky set up from the get go:
As I go down the "build a shroud" path, I will post that crap to help folks avoid the mistakes I will inevitably make. If any of you have good glass skills, let me know! Meanwhile, Kemm filled me in on TotalBoat on youtube and that is where I am gaining my knowledge. I am always up for more. I am right now doing the foam core sculpting and then I will do all the other steps and stuff to make a fiberglass shroud. Super stoked...it's another skill set I have been wanting to develop...
Second update. The Power Steering pump. So those that want to run AC use the mid mount bracket. That moves your Power steering pump down to low position. However, even if you don't do that, you probably STILL need to rotate the pump inlet to get the hose barb positioned to where it needs to be. Mine, as you rotate it, got tighter and tighter eventually breaking. Demm's came loose and leaked (mine also seeps). There is no need for this. Get rid of that barb. Rotate it and pull the frigger out--it is a press fit with an o-ring. What is left is a smooth bore, pretty decent size too for a 3/8" NPT tap. So I started the tap (my tap was a little long and would bottom out) and then I chopped off the nose of the tap (tap cost $10 amazon) and I wasn't worried about losing temper since pump is aluminum:
So I cut the tap, and ground the point to be slightly tapered and cleaned up the thread with a file and finished tapping:
I am running a -10AN return line (look, I like AN hoses, even for low pressure return lines....don't judge..." So I just ran a swivel -10AN to 3/8" NPT. this all worked very well. I am not putting it in yet as the pump is now a "spare" but it is ready to go in and if I were to do a build from scratch I would do this right away and screw that janky set up from the get go:
As I go down the "build a shroud" path, I will post that crap to help folks avoid the mistakes I will inevitably make. If any of you have good glass skills, let me know! Meanwhile, Kemm filled me in on TotalBoat on youtube and that is where I am gaining my knowledge. I am always up for more. I am right now doing the foam core sculpting and then I will do all the other steps and stuff to make a fiberglass shroud. Super stoked...it's another skill set I have been wanting to develop...
dkemm
Well-known member
AMEN!!
I concur!!
I went through a few radiators, FMIC’s and electric fans to address the same heat soak issues this summer. I finally settled on a dual pass, with my FMIC air ducted to the ‘hotter’ pass, the lower cool pass getting clean air. These helped, but the e-fan still couldn’t keep the temps where I would like them (it was late summer and not 100°). The mech fan is working for me (went w/ 17” for clearance). I don’t yet have my shroud glasses, but the form is done and mold release is on… just need to glass.
I don’t have a radiator muff, but considering making one as my Murphy gauge reads 172-182 most of the time, while my analog gauge (at the thermostat) is usually in the 160° range. I read this as the thermostat only opening a small amount and it cools as it hits the radiator.
Like Chris, I run -an lines and I am not impressed with the low pressure PS pump fitting!!! I too will be tapping mine - most likely tomorrow as I still need to remove it. I spent today installing a new front drive shaft, panhard bushes and greasing things.
I concur!!
I went through a few radiators, FMIC’s and electric fans to address the same heat soak issues this summer. I finally settled on a dual pass, with my FMIC air ducted to the ‘hotter’ pass, the lower cool pass getting clean air. These helped, but the e-fan still couldn’t keep the temps where I would like them (it was late summer and not 100°). The mech fan is working for me (went w/ 17” for clearance). I don’t yet have my shroud glasses, but the form is done and mold release is on… just need to glass.
I don’t have a radiator muff, but considering making one as my Murphy gauge reads 172-182 most of the time, while my analog gauge (at the thermostat) is usually in the 160° range. I read this as the thermostat only opening a small amount and it cools as it hits the radiator.
Like Chris, I run -an lines and I am not impressed with the low pressure PS pump fitting!!! I too will be tapping mine - most likely tomorrow as I still need to remove it. I spent today installing a new front drive shaft, panhard bushes and greasing things.
MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
Sure. Last fan/shroud, great fit, is the Flex a lite 188 Black Magic Extreme. Hate the name, love the fan.
I have tried others,started with 16” spal 30102049, then the Taurus fan shroud and a couple other set ups including the spal fan/shroud that Griffin supplied. Taurus feels biggest pull.
You can feel the mech fan’s power and not even with a locked clutch—they move a lot of air. Out of the engine bay. It seems to have solved many of other owners heat issues in all sorts of vehicles that have run hot. there are a number of Cummins R2.8 specific sites such as Facebook, that share a lot of tech stuff too.….
I have tried others,started with 16” spal 30102049, then the Taurus fan shroud and a couple other set ups including the spal fan/shroud that Griffin supplied. Taurus feels biggest pull.
You can feel the mech fan’s power and not even with a locked clutch—they move a lot of air. Out of the engine bay. It seems to have solved many of other owners heat issues in all sorts of vehicles that have run hot. there are a number of Cummins R2.8 specific sites such as Facebook, that share a lot of tech stuff too.….
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erover82
Well-known member
It's definitely difficult for a thin-blade 16" fan with ~250 W of power to compete with a thick-blade ~17-19" mechanical fan with 120,000 W of power behind it. I'm guessing you can get a fan clutch for an R2.8 that actually works too.
I suspect that success with an electric fan in your tortuous scenario would require perfect shrouding and a paddle-bladed fan with more power, possibly brushless, to overcome the static pressure of your radiator, intercooler, and condenser. The new brushless fans are awesome with their superior power, longevity, efficiency, and PWM speed control that keeps it quiet when cooling requirements are low. They certainly command a price premium though.
Your SPAL fan is the yellow line. It's head of the pack at 0 static pressure but falls behind the paddle-bladed fans as pressure increases. Unfortunately, Flex-a-lite only publishes flow specs at 0 static pressure, and I don't trust them. Every hot-rod guy I've talked to recommends SPAL over FaL.
It would be interesting to see if the latest in aftermarket electric fan tech would solve your problems, but seeing as you've found a working solution, and already spent a fortune on electric fans, I don't expect it'll be any time soon. Looking forward to seeing more.
I suspect that success with an electric fan in your tortuous scenario would require perfect shrouding and a paddle-bladed fan with more power, possibly brushless, to overcome the static pressure of your radiator, intercooler, and condenser. The new brushless fans are awesome with their superior power, longevity, efficiency, and PWM speed control that keeps it quiet when cooling requirements are low. They certainly command a price premium though.
Your SPAL fan is the yellow line. It's head of the pack at 0 static pressure but falls behind the paddle-bladed fans as pressure increases. Unfortunately, Flex-a-lite only publishes flow specs at 0 static pressure, and I don't trust them. Every hot-rod guy I've talked to recommends SPAL over FaL.
It would be interesting to see if the latest in aftermarket electric fan tech would solve your problems, but seeing as you've found a working solution, and already spent a fortune on electric fans, I don't expect it'll be any time soon. Looking forward to seeing more.
MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
I would have just swapped over to the Axis fan, as, correct if I’m wrong, but they are running a brushless PWM fan—however I know that their set up not keeping up here in CO this summer from a another CO d110. But maybe—and I hope there is a good solution for the future that someone comes up with. Right now I’m emotionally cool with a simple mechanical solution if it indeed works.
Once I have the shroud properly designed, and the fan isn’t spinning in free air, it’ll be easier to see if the fan clutch is working well for sure and adjust as necessary. I haven’t checked with the radiator muffler in yet either…. I should.
Once I have the shroud properly designed, and the fan isn’t spinning in free air, it’ll be easier to see if the fan clutch is working well for sure and adjust as necessary. I haven’t checked with the radiator muffler in yet either…. I should.
Why not dual stage fans? Like VW and Audi have done on their vehicles? Big fan and a smaller one. Small fan for “when in op temp” and a bigger one for when under load. Never had issues with any of my turbo charged vehicles getting hot in traffic or bumper to bumper traffic with the ac on.
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MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
Even on your R2.8?
KW1985def110
Well-known member
The first post of Uncle Doug‘s R2.8 threads on the other forum, “Cummins R2.8 into a Defender” talks about the cooling package/heat exchange working so well Cummins had turn the fan on remotely. My understanding is that his cooling package is the same thing Allisport sells these days.
Would you attribute that solely to altitude and mountains? Or do you think there is something else ?
Wondering if Cummins changed something on their end over the few years, because he also talks about that truck going deep into Colorado mountains without issue.
(Also feel free to ignore this if my understanding of that cooling package is wrong)
Would you attribute that solely to altitude and mountains? Or do you think there is something else ?
Wondering if Cummins changed something on their end over the few years, because he also talks about that truck going deep into Colorado mountains without issue.
(Also feel free to ignore this if my understanding of that cooling package is wrong)