1991 200TDI to R2.8--couple remaining questions

donb

Well-known member
Looked under the truck today to see what happened overnight... Saw this.

Nothing. Nothing at all. Not a drop. No leaks. Phew.

(Ignore the wire--just doing some testing)

I've been driving my 110 around some more after getting the QuickDraw throttle pedal installed and fix some leaks from the LT230 (thanks Napalm for the ARP thread sealant tip!). Knock on wood but there hasn't been any leaks. For some reason even the PS box seems to be dry (maybe the R2.8 PS pump is smoother/better pressure?).

Regarding the QuickDraw throttle pedal relocation kit. That made a huge difference! It does feel too "light" but I'll take that over how twitchy the Cummins pedal was. This is one of those things that should be part of the kit considering this engines are going into Jeeps, Toyotas and LR with cable throttle already.

Congrats on getting the engine running MD!
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
Thanks! I’m looking into springs for the TPS with greater spring rate— I’ll let you know what I find!
 
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MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
Did some evening mock ups. Sliders need some modding (just a little) and the body of the truck should really be removed and get the whole thing realigned—but that is just too much work for this round of rehab. I’ll leave that for a future date when I do chassis ….(unforeseeable future).
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The exhaust mock up gave a solid game plan to start cutting and welding the tubing! I believe I’ll roll through it, definitely this weekend. Then work on tunnel…
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Those slip sleeve ends have too big a gap to weld (they are intended to be clamped, but I’d never do that nor would it actually work) but it’s decent gauge 304 stainless and that’s all I needed. So those ends need to be removed (easy enough with proper metal chop saw with dedicated stainless blade). This tubing MIGs pretty smooth but I may end up TIGing it. I’m not going for show quality appearance, just solid and functional…a Carhartt clothing sort of look.

I will also say that I am on the fence about using a muffler along with the DOC (which I am using). The DOC seems to do a decent job quieting it down and frankly, on startup without floor boards in, it was remarkably quiet and definitely considering going straight pipe right out the back. Turbo will spool quicker this way, but noise needs to be right. I already have the Borla muffler, and talking with @jymmiejamz , what I think I will do is weld on a couple V-couplings onto the muffler, measure the finished length, and make a swappable straight section during the welding phase. Then I will just use the straight pipes but when I do big road trips with the wifey, I can swap in the muffler. Think I will do that....
 
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donb

Well-known member
I will also say that I am on the fence about using a muffler along with the DOC (which I am using). The DOC seems to do a decent job quieting it down and frankly, on startup without floor boards in, it was remarkably quiet and definitely considering going straight pipe right out the back. Turbo will spool quicker this way, but noise needs to be right. I already have the Borla muffler, and talking with @jymmiejamz , what I think I will do is weld on a couple V-couplings onto the muffler, measure the finished length, and make a swappable straight section during the welding phase. Then I will just use the straight pipes but when I do big road trips with the wifey, I can swap in the muffler. Think I will do that....

Exhaust routing looks good - very close to what I did around the trans/x-fer case.

I did the same thing on my muffler area. V-bands on either side of the muffler in case I want to swap in a straight pipe (which I haven't made of course). With the v-bands I have the exhaust in smaller pieces as it's very convenient if I have to get into one section - 12mm socket on an impact and it's out of the way in minutes.
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
Exhaust routing looks good - very close to what I did around the trans/x-fer case.

I did the same thing on my muffler area. V-bands on either side of the muffler in case I want to swap in a straight pipe (which I haven't made of course). With the v-bands I have the exhaust in smaller pieces as it's very convenient if I have to get into one section - 12mm socket on an impact and it's out of the way in minutes.
How is noise level with your setup? Remind me, are you running DOC?
 

donb

Well-known member
How is noise level with your setup? Remind me, are you running DOC?

I'm running the DOC and 2.5" exhaust.

The noise level isn't too bad but I have a soft top, 35" Swampers and I still have to put in my center console (the cover is just resting there).
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
On Friday, I tacked up the exhaust complete and hung it overnight. With fresh eyes on Saturday morning, I knew I had to change several things that would change everything. Argh. Do it, or it’ll bug me forever. So ground everything apart, started again. Finished late last night. Some notes on install.

1). Stainless (I used 304 SS) dulls tools and wrecks blades. Spend the dough, get a dedicated stainless blade for metal chop saw. My favorite tool by far for exhaust work. I also have steel and aluminum blades, worth every dime. Metal chop saws spin slower than abrasive wheel saws—they are not interchangable. Cuts are precise, don’t get hot, and are quick.
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2) Just tack full mock up in place before committing to welding. Yeah, more work, but less work too if you change anything.

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3) Use proper wire or rods. I used specific SS to SS wire in my MIG gun. I was gonna borrow a tig, but finally just decided to not do that. Another time.
4) Use proper shielding gas. Which I didn’t have and knew I wasn’t gonna use. I just used my AR/CO2 which I knew would work, but not nearly as good as a tri-blend. Back feeding the setup with AR is ideal too, but I didn’t have the capability for that and I only had about 4 burn-throughs that I fixed. To do it over again, I would have gotten a bottle of the tri-blend gas.
5) To bend the 1/2” SS rod for hangers, I used a vice and 4’ section of black iron. Never underestimate leverage.
6) Forget using flanges and bolts. I ditched every one. Use V-Band clamps.
7) Never use an impact gun on stainless bolts as they can and do gall and freeze in place—either direction—fubarring itself. I knew this but ignored my own advice due to my tendinitis and expediency due to how many on/off cycles I did during mock up. I ruined a v-band clamp. Argh. See! Told me so. I will wait to do the muffler section replacement. Running the DOC and straight pipe for now.

Welding SS is not the same as regular steel—not even close if you don’t use the right gas. I knew this going in as I’ve done it before. It’ll make you feel like a noob and my welds are not pretty nor did I expect that. But I did try and be very cautious to get deep penetration through loads of practice And to dial in voltage and wire speed.

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I still need to finish wrapping some sections, but it’s in and done. I did cut off all the slip together sleeves that the exhaust kit came with, leaving just the first 1/8” (barely, just the slight beginning of the flair) to provide a nice aligned union surface to prevent burn through. Worked great. My only burn-through were on butted sections where I needed to shorten sections. When I add the muffler section I will probably shorten the exhaust about an inch…or maybe not. I exited it at the corner as that is the highest spot.

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(I need to work on that chassis and body paint too! But hey, haven’t had the truck that long and my list is still huge…)
 

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Spikemd

Active member
Nice work and thanks for documenting! Ive spent the past few years swapping in a 300tdi and was finally driving it home last week when the engine seized on me! Dropped oil pan, took of head and timing cover and the crank wont move. i shouldve put in the R2.8 4 years ago! Ironically, Uncle Douglas was out at my buddy's shop and he convinced to drop one in. I have a new Ashcroft tranny with HD bearing that was just installed a few months ago. Waiting on the engine and starting to gather info and parts. My buddy Tim Scully has done about 10 cummions conversions and 50 LS conversions. He knows his stuff but I will be doing as much as I can with his guidance.

great to see you fired it up!
 

Ephry73

Well-known member
Nice work and thanks for documenting! Ive spent the past few years swapping in a 300tdi and was finally driving it home last week when the engine seized on me! Dropped oil pan, took of head and timing cover and the crank wont move. i shouldve put in the R2.8 4 years ago! Ironically, Uncle Douglas was out at my buddy's shop and he convinced to drop one in. I have a new Ashcroft tranny with HD bearing that was just installed a few months ago. Waiting on the engine and starting to gather info and parts. My buddy Tim Scully has done about 10 cummions conversions and 50 LS conversions. He knows his stuff but I will be doing as much as I can with his guidance.

great to see you fired it up!
What was the cause of the failure? I’ve been thinking of a 200tdi with 300tdi head or a 2.8 international or something like it when the om617 bites the dust. Then again the om606 puts out some heavy numbers in stock form.

E
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
What was the cause of the failure? I’ve been thinking of a 200tdi with 300tdi head or a 2.8 international or something like it when the om617 bites the dust. Then again the om606 puts out some heavy numbers in stock form.

E
606 is pretty impressive engine and I looked at that engine seriously too. Just a lot of work to do it all, but definitely possible. Only big complaint I have heard is the higher RPM levels that it likes to run---not so bad with the automatic, but doing things like towing it is pretty tough on a manual... Food for thought depending on tranny---I am a big manual guy and ended up opting for the R2.8. The 606's that I have seen tuned were insane. 400-600 HP is totally possible with little mods other than a turbo and IP.
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
I will also say the truck is running great. I am running hot on the very steep sustained climbs up the roads at about 8000' towing my trailer at 96F ambient. I consulted several folks and the answer is to either oversize the radiator or to (preferably) run the engine driven fan with shroud that a lot of folks are now doing (such as all R2.8's at Heritage Driven). I personally thought I would take one more stab at electric so I got a taller radiator compared to what I am using so I could run a 16" fan in lieu of the 14" fan, and of course my AWESWOME PlasmaMan intercooler no longer fits on width. That SUCKS! But it is what it is at this point. So I will be selling my Griffin Radiator and PlasmaMan Intercooler which makes me sad as it is one of the best intercoolers made, but it is what it is so I opted just to take my buddies Allisport set up with 16" fan as I didn't want to spend the time waiting for a 1/4" wider one to be made.

Offroad, I was cool as a cucumber going up steep rock gardens in low range at all times. Never got above 185. It was easy peasy. It is just on the road going up steep crap at about 25-35mph. Overland Road gets steep in places, such as 1200' elevation in 2 miles. Doesn't sound like a lot, but some of the sections are super steep. Topo shows it fairly well if you are familiar reading maps:
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so only on one or two sections did it heat up to concern me.

I like to log my successes and failures--and my ultimate goal is to tow my trailer, at altitude, through friggin heat waves and not have to go 15mph or shifting into low.

I am adding a shroud onto the Allisport as I am ALMOST there. That arrives this evening and then I will give the 100% done with the mechanics. Shifted onto the front interior and that is done with exception that I will probably add something like the Wright Offroad mat. And I need to do the Disco II rear seat mod over the next month or so. But overall, I am driving it happily.
 

Ephry73

Well-known member
I will also say the truck is running great. I am running hot on the very steep sustained climbs up the roads at about 8000' towing my trailer at 96F ambient. I consulted several folks and the answer is to either oversize the radiator or to (preferably) run the engine driven fan with shroud that a lot of folks are now doing (such as all R2.8's at Heritage Driven). I personally thought I would take one more stab at electric so I got a taller radiator compared to what I am using so I could run a 16" fan in lieu of the 14" fan, and of course my AWESWOME PlasmaMan intercooler no longer fits on width. That SUCKS! But it is what it is at this point. So I will be selling my Griffin Radiator and PlasmaMan Intercooler which makes me sad as it is one of the best intercoolers made, but it is what it is so I opted just to take my buddies Allisport set up with 16" fan as I didn't want to spend the time waiting for a 1/4" wider one to be made.

Offroad, I was cool as a cucumber going up steep rock gardens in low range at all times. Never got above 185. It was easy peasy. It is just on the road going up steep crap at about 25-35mph. Overland Road gets steep in places, such as 1200' elevation in 2 miles. Doesn't sound like a lot, but some of the sections are super steep. Topo shows it fairly well if you are familiar reading maps:
View attachment 24872
so only on one or two sections did it heat up to concern me.

I like to log my successes and failures--and my ultimate goal is to tow my trailer, at altitude, through friggin heat waves and not have to go 15mph or shifting into low.

I am adding a shroud onto the Allisport as I am ALMOST there. That arrives this evening and then I will give the 100% done with the mechanics. Shifted onto the front interior and that is done with exception that I will probably add something like the Wright Offroad mat. And I need to do the Disco II rear seat mod over the next month or so. But overall, I am driving it happily.
That is impressive! Perhaps a “small and bigger” fan combo will work. The smaller one can run normal Temps since diesels love to work hot, and the bigger one to kick in under load at X temp. Most of the smaller turbo motors I’ve had had this setup and even the after run cooler for the turbo. I’m our case that doesn’t apply. How are your EGTs? I’m still setting my gauges up and an intercooler is in the works.
 

Ephry73

Well-known member
606 is pretty impressive engine and I looked at that engine seriously too. Just a lot of work to do it all, but definitely possible. Only big complaint I have heard is the higher RPM levels that it likes to run---not so bad with the automatic, but doing things like towing it is pretty tough on a manual... Food for thought depending on tranny---I am a big manual guy and ended up opting for the R2.8. The 606's that I have seen tuned were insane. 400-600 HP is totally possible with little mods other than a turbo and IP.
I will drive a manual transmission until my body says otherwise. I can’t drive an auto without pressing the “clutch” or “grabbing to downshift”. Been driving manual every day for well over 36 years lol.

Thanks for the information and keep sharing the details on the build.

E
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
It hit 220+. Too hot for me. They say it cuts power at 225. I slowed down and pulled over (cooled quickly)— and I wasn’t going fast. Once you hear heat soak at those temps it grows quickly, especially starting out on hills in high range on asphalt at altitude. You have to get turbo going or stall , or get in low which is also an option. Sometimes going eloquently from low to high is tough… but possible.
 

Spikemd

Active member
What was the cause of the failure? I’ve been thinking of a 200tdi with 300tdi head or a 2.8 international or something like it when the om617 bites the dust. Then again the om606 puts out some heavy numbers in stock form.

E
I will pull the bearing caps tomorrow. Engine died and starter would engage but couldnt rotate motor. Took off oil pain and didnt notice any metal chuncks. Took off head and still couldnt rotate crank. Pistons looked ok, nothing glaring, hg looked OK. Took off timing cover and belt looked fine. Belt off and cam rotates fine. This leaves something in the crank not working. I don't want to put the money into rebuilding the 300tdi. I want the R2.8 and have since I did my engine swap.

Uncle Douglas and Scully should be back from the Rubicon today. Really bummed I couldn't join them. Next year with my R2.8 hopefully!

I will talk with Doug about cooling options. Scully has built 10 or so R2.8s. He has done 50 or so LS conversions. I've driven a few LSs and they are amazing but I want diesel for range and offroading. This truck will be fully kitted out for overlanding.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
I will pull the bearing caps tomorrow. Engine died and starter would engage but couldnt rotate motor. Took off oil pain and didnt notice any metal chuncks. Took off head and still couldnt rotate crank. Pistons looked ok, nothing glaring, hg looked OK. Took off timing cover and belt looked fine. Belt off and cam rotates fine. This leaves something in the crank not working. I don't want to put the money into rebuilding the 300tdi. I want the R2.8 and have since I did my engine swap.

Uncle Douglas and Scully should be back from the Rubicon today. Really bummed I couldn't join them. Next year with my R2.8 hopefully!

I will talk with Doug about cooling options. Scully has built 10 or so R2.8s. He has done 50 or so LS conversions. I've driven a few LSs and they are amazing but I want diesel for range and offroading. This truck will be fully kitted out for overlanding.
What is the fuel economy of a Cummins motor vs an LS on a fully kitted out Defender? I saw one guy on Facebook with a D90 on 35’s that was only getting around 120 miles to a tank with the R2.8 on the highway from what I remember.
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
You are selling your radiator and IC?
Yeah, I’ll reach out latter with details and see if it’s up your alley.
What is the fuel economy of a Cummins motor vs an LS on a fully kitted out Defender? I saw one guy on Facebook with a D90 on 35’s that was only getting around 120 miles to a tank with the R2.8 on the highway from what I remember.
don’t know yet. Still on first tank, but will let you know! LS is kitted and it gets about 13, lead foot, external cage and roof rack on 33s (6L80e/1.2/3.54)
 

Ephry73

Well-known member
Cool. I wonder what that is. Wonder if the pistons rings are the cause. Maybe not capped enough and they bound in the cylinder.


E
 
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