SaintPanzer
Well-known member
Beck has been making those (as well as Speedsters) for years...http://beckspeedster.com/generalproductinfo/550spyder.html
Legacy NAS vs. New Osprey Build
- Thread starter SlickWI
- Start date
My understanding of this, which admittedly could be 100% wrong, is that this reg was really more targeted toward manufacturers who are truly building replicas - not what I assume Osprey is doing (importing and modifying).
All of the below is pure speculation...
I guess the benefit to this from a customers perspective is that the potential questionable legality of the imported vehicle is moot. Also from a manufacturers perspective you could then bring in tons of "parts cars". Buy cheaper later year Defenders overseas, break them down into parts, and then import everything as parts. Use those parts to "manufacture" vehicles under your marquee.
Prob with a new vin is that you're bound to bump up against modern DMV regs at some point somewhere, and instead of a 1990 truck being exempt or grandfathered, it's a 2023 subject to the whole ball of wax.
I'd guess zero Ospreys are reg'd in CA.
I can't imagine how Osprey keeps JLR's trademark attorneys off their back.
Doubt there is any collector value to an Osprey becasue the vehicle history is vaporized. It was "born yesterday."
I'd guess zero Ospreys are reg'd in CA.
I can't imagine how Osprey keeps JLR's trademark attorneys off their back.
Doubt there is any collector value to an Osprey becasue the vehicle history is vaporized. It was "born yesterday."
These are not land rovers. I have the paperwork and carfax and they’re “Osprey”. He’s building them from the ground up with new parts. I’m am surprised they can market them and label them as land rovers, but I’m no lawyer.
BAT is the only website that doesn’t allow them to describe them as land rovers, rather they clearly state they are replicas. All the other sites let them is the Land Rover name and descriptions, even though they’re not actually Land Rovers.
The product seems good, but just worried about resale of a replica.
BAT is the only website that doesn’t allow them to describe them as land rovers, rather they clearly state they are replicas. All the other sites let them is the Land Rover name and descriptions, even though they’re not actually Land Rovers.
The product seems good, but just worried about resale of a replica.
SCRover
Well-known member
Sorry this thread has gone off the rails from your original post, but it does bring up a question I've been wondering about for a long time. Is it possible to build a Defender completely from the ground up with new OEM and aftermarket parts? If you replace the frame, put in a new drivetrain, replace all the body panels, bulkhead, doors, and everything else. when does it stop being original and become a replica? My guess is, if you have a donor vehicle (and it's associated title and VIN) then you can call it a Land Rover, but if you're starting from scratch then it's not technically. Still, aside from the legality, what's the difference?
I am in no way defending Osprey. Everybody has access to the same parts - new, aftermarket, or whatever. It really comes down to the skill of the person assembling those parts, and due diligence when spending $200k becomes hyper-critical. I don't know what Himalaya, Arkonik, Cool-N-Vintage, The Landrovers, or any of the other high-end builders charge for their trucks, but at that price point I would have very high expectations. All things being equal (and they're not) I would much rather have a quality, restored original with proper provenance.
I am in no way defending Osprey. Everybody has access to the same parts - new, aftermarket, or whatever. It really comes down to the skill of the person assembling those parts, and due diligence when spending $200k becomes hyper-critical. I don't know what Himalaya, Arkonik, Cool-N-Vintage, The Landrovers, or any of the other high-end builders charge for their trucks, but at that price point I would have very high expectations. All things being equal (and they're not) I would much rather have a quality, restored original with proper provenance.
Back to one of your original questions - will it hold value compared to a Defender? Who knows as there’s really no data on which to draw a conclusion.
That being said, I would surmise that you would have a harder time reselling an Osprey than you would a comp-spec restored Defender just based on the lack of name recognition alone.
Additionally, when you mention ”they can’t keep them in stock” - again without data I could argue that it is just as likely to be a supply problem than excessive demand.
I would also urge you to search the internet, specifically other more long-established defender forums, for information about the people who run Osprey. You’ll get a sense for why most people who have been in the community for a while may not look too positively at Osprey.
That being said, I would surmise that you would have a harder time reselling an Osprey than you would a comp-spec restored Defender just based on the lack of name recognition alone.
Additionally, when you mention ”they can’t keep them in stock” - again without data I could argue that it is just as likely to be a supply problem than excessive demand.
I would also urge you to search the internet, specifically other more long-established defender forums, for information about the people who run Osprey. You’ll get a sense for why most people who have been in the community for a while may not look too positively at Osprey.
Frenglish
Well-known member
apologies for continuing with this threadjacking here.. But I think the answer to building one from a part here there everywhere is simply surmized the same as "triggers broom" from Fools and Horses.
And to the note of Osprey, There are so many better options for that price point that are still called land rovers. the changing of the VIN creates a new catagory of problems to deal with. I see what they do it, but it helps him build and import them. not you the consumer.
pl626
Member
Doc Aaron seems to have whitewashed his history with Land Rover imports and parts, you really have to dig. There are many other resto shops out there without the reputational baggage...
mitherial
Well-known member
Is 'Osprey' really run by the infamous Doc Aaron? Did he end up actually doing jail time?
pl626
Member
AFAIK, he was never charged, but plenty of victims for sure...
There have been so many fluff pieces about Osprey over the last few years that you do have to go deep in the search to find the history. Luckily Google allows you to specify “- Osprey” to get rid of all that fluff when you search his name.
Going back to the original question…
I would suspect the resale value is less than half of the price new.
There are plenty of shops that can do a complete rebuild with everything new, no reason to not have a Land Rover VIN.
I would suspect the resale value is less than half of the price new.
There are plenty of shops that can do a complete rebuild with everything new, no reason to not have a Land Rover VIN.
blueboy
Well-known member
Exactly!!
madcowdungbeetle
Well-known member
FWIW, I have crawled under an Osprey build, and the pitted out brackets that were re-used was disturbing for a "frame off restored" truck. Also, if the jokingly half-assed rock slider install I saw was any indicator of the rest of the work and attention to detail, I would not have much confidence in the build.... also the paint job and bodywork looked like a Maaco job up inside of 10ft.
I feel like so many of these "builders" now are nothing more than predators, preying on uneducated buyers who have too much money and no sense of what they're looking at. Someone should start a show, "To Catch a Predator: Defender Edition."
I feel like so many of these "builders" now are nothing more than predators, preying on uneducated buyers who have too much money and no sense of what they're looking at. Someone should start a show, "To Catch a Predator: Defender Edition."
Ansley Rover
Active member
I came back across this post and your question reminded me of something I think I heard on the History channel:
“This is my family’s axe. My great grandfather bought it. My grandfather replaced the handle a couple of times and my father replaced the head once or twice. But this is my family’s axe.”
Ansley Rover
Active member
Here’s the actual quote. I got curious and looked it up.
This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the nine hundred-year-old axe of my family? And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y'know. Pretty good.
This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the nine hundred-year-old axe of my family? And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y'know. Pretty good.
hillstrubl
Founding Member
The ship of Theseus