Legacy NAS vs. New Osprey Build

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SlickWI

Member
Has anyone done any research or known someone to acquire a new Osprey build vs. a legacy land rover that was or will be restored? Seems to be appealing to have everything brand new, but concerned about the fact that it's not an actual Land Rover on the title and wondering whether or not they'll hold any value or depreciate as quickly as a normal vehicle does. Any thoughts or considerations to share?
Thanks!
 
1of40

1of40

Well-known member
Original NAS is my vote. The fewer miles the better, and don't drive it if you're concerned about appreciation.
 
S

SlickWI

Member
Wow. Certainly didn’t expect these responses. The product looks good. They also have a dealer in TX now selling their vehicles, at a mass premium, to help grow. They can’t seem to keep them in stock. I certainly like the idea of all brand new, but not if quality and reliability are an issue.
 
Ansley Rover

Ansley Rover

Active member
"...a new Osprey build vs. a legacy land rover that was or will be restored?"

I'm not sure I understand the difference. I just quickly looked at their site and it looks to me like they take old land rovers and work on them/build them out to the owners' specification. That appears to sometimes mean putting in a new LS motor and calling the vehicle a 2021 or presumably whatever year they did the work.
"Restoring" a Land Rover means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Some mean buffing the paint, putting on tough looking tires and covering up rust. Others mean a chassis and engine swap with all sorts of interior and exterior work - sometimes well done, other times not so much.

It all comes down to what you want in terms of function and quality and how much you want to spend.
 
Ansley Rover

Ansley Rover

Active member
I find it very interesting that, other than pictures of freshly swapped LS motors, I couldn't find a single picture on their site of any mechanical/underbody components. It's all exterior and interior pics.
 
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pfshoen

Well-known member
If depreciation is the same % for a $50k Def and a $150k Def, well, you can do the math.
When it comes to appreciation, I bet on oem spec or close to it, just like with any collectible vehicle. Original condition trumps all in my book.
 
mitherial

mitherial

Well-known member
(1) I personally would not buy a Defender with anything other than an appropriate-year title + registered as a "Land Rover/Defender/Ninety/One-Ten etc." (The exact verbiage varies; Michigan thinks that I have a 'station wagon'). You would probably be okay re-selling your "2021 Osprey" in the same state as you are registered five or ten years from now, but you are asking for potential legal headaches selling across-state lines, and the oddball "Osprey" title would definitely not help the resale value (especially if Osprey is no longer in business by that point).

(2) Osprey is almost certainly NOT actually making any "new from scratch" vehicles (and many parts are no longer available "new" anyway), but instead renovating/modding old trucks just like any other shop. Even if they *were* attempting to use "only new" parts, you still would not actually want this because (a) buying parts piecemeal would be an order of magnitude more expensive than simply starting with a parts truck in good condition, and (b) many people believe (with some reason) that currently available reproduction or even genuine parts may not match the "quality" of original parts.

(3) The above being said, it is perfectly reasonable and appropriate to have a new chassis and crate motor of your choice installed on a high-dollar build, but you should treat Osprey as you would any other other rebuilding shop (ECD is probably the "gold standard" in terms of originality, but there are certainly many other viable options if you are willing to spend the money).
 
1of40

1of40

Well-known member
mitherial said:
(1) I personally would not buy a Defender with anything other than an appropriate-year title + registered as a "Land Rover/Defender/Ninety/One-Ten etc." (The exact verbiage varies; Michigan thinks that I have a 'station wagon'). You would probably be okay re-selling your "2021 Osprey" in the same state as you are registered five or ten years from now, but you are asking for potential legal headaches selling across-state lines, and the oddball "Osprey" title would definitely not help the resale value (especially if Osprey is no longer in business by that point).

(2) Osprey is almost certainly NOT actually making any "new from scratch" vehicles (and many parts are no longer available "new" anyway), but instead renovating/modding old trucks just like any other shop. Even if they *were* attempting to use "only new" parts, you still would not actually want this because (a) buying parts piecemeal would be an order of magnitude more expensive than simply starting with a parts truck in good condition, and (b) many people believe (with some reason) that currently available reproduction or even genuine parts may not match the "quality" of original parts.

(3) The above being said, it is perfectly reasonable and appropriate to have a new chassis and crate motor of your choice installed on a high-dollar build, but you should treat Osprey as you would any other other rebuilding shop (ECD is probably the "gold standard" in terms of originality, but there are certainly many other viable options if you are willing to spend the money).
Click to expand...
ECR, probably not ECD.
 
One ten

One ten

Well-known member
You could buy one from Black Bridge motors if you want a truck that looks like a Defender but is really a Jeep Wrangler underneath. 😂
 
SCRover

SCRover

Well-known member
Search on eBay for “Osprey Defender.” From the description it says they are titled as 2023 Osprey custom with a non-Land Rover VIN. Is that any different from a custom car builder or kit car manufacturer? I don’t know the legalities but it doesn’t feel right. There’s no way it meets any current US safety standards like a new car manufacturer would have to, but maybe it doesn’t need to.
I really wonder how he gets away with calling them Land Rovers, including Defender badging, without violating trademarks.
I have no first hand knowledge, but from what I’ve read I wouldn’t take a truck from them if they paid me to.
I can’t imagine the nightmare of trying to insure one.
Osprey is the Times Square fake Rolex of Defenders. It might look good on your wrist, but if you know, you know.
 
mitherial

mitherial

Well-known member
SCRover said:
Search on eBay for “Osprey Defender.” From the description it says they are titled as 2023 Osprey custom with a non-Land Rover VIN. Is that any different from a custom car builder or kit car manufacturer? I don’t know the legalities but it doesn’t feel right. There’s no way it meets any current US safety standards like a new car manufacturer would have to, but maybe it doesn’t need to.
I really wonder how he gets away with calling them Land Rovers, including Defender badging, without violating trademarks.
I have no first hand knowledge, but from what I’ve read I wouldn’t take a truck from them if they paid me to.
I can’t imagine the nightmare of trying to insure one.
Osprey is the Times Square fake Rolex of Defenders. It might look good on your wrist, but if you know, you know.
Click to expand...


From the pictures on eBay, these are not “custom” cars, but instead, regular old Defenders that this guy’s shop gave a fancy respray, maybe an engine or bulkhead/dash upgrade, and a bunch of the same bolt-on aftermarket parts that any other shop could use.

As for the VIN, maybe there is some kind of exception for *actual* extremely low-volume new custom kit car production, but these are just old ROW Defenders with a bunch of bling-lipstick, which is to say, a lawsuit/prosecution waiting to happen, and the VIN change seems to be intentionally designed to deceive potential customers. I’m sure the US Custom Department is warming up their car-crushers again.

What is it with Wilmington, NC and shady/legally questionable Defenders?!


Here is the Osprey blurb from the eBay listing:

“Osprey Custom Cars are the visionaries and crafters behind the world's most cutting-edge and timeless overland vehicles. The Osprey Custom Cars Team has been doing the LS3 engine conversion into the Land Rover Defender since 2013. We pride ourselves on being custom build and restoration specialists. We offer the finest custom quality overland vehicles and are proud to offer them for sale in the USA. As a low-volume vehicle manufacturer registered with the NHTSA since 2019, we now offer NEW vehicles — not "restored" or "rebuilt" — with VINs that are unique to the Osprey Custom brand as well as full restoration services!”
 
C

cameron

Member
mitherial said:
As for the VIN, maybe there is some kind of exception for *actual* extremely low-volume new custom kit car production, but these are just old ROW Defenders with a bunch of bling-lipstick, which is to say, a lawsuit/prosecution waiting to happen, and the VIN change seems to be intentionally designed to deceive potential customers. I’m sure the US Custom Department is warming up their car-crushers again.
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Who knows what he's actually doing - but there is this that allows companies to produce replica vehicles of designs older than 25 years.

 
mitherial

mitherial

Well-known member
cameron said:
Who knows what he's actually doing - but there is this that allows companies to produce replica vehicles of designs older than 25 years.

Click to expand...


Huh, if the NHTSA allows straight reproductions, then my comments above about legality per se are incorrect and I withdraw them, though this approach makes much more sense for something like the Porsche Spyder of which they only made 50 units and now sells for millions of dollars, as opposed to the classic Series/Defender, of which they made a million, and sell for thousands of dollars.
 
jymmiejamz

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
mitherial said:
From the pictures on eBay, these are not “custom” cars, but instead, regular old Defenders that this guy’s shop gave a fancy respray, maybe an engine or bulkhead/dash upgrade, and a bunch of the same bolt-on aftermarket parts that any other shop could use.

As for the VIN, maybe there is some kind of exception for *actual* extremely low-volume new custom kit car production, but these are just old ROW Defenders with a bunch of bling-lipstick, which is to say, a lawsuit/prosecution waiting to happen, and the VIN change seems to be intentionally designed to deceive potential customers. I’m sure the US Custom Department is warming up their car-crushers again.

What is it with Wilmington, NC and shady/legally questionable Defenders?!


Here is the Osprey blurb from the eBay listing:

“Osprey Custom Cars are the visionaries and crafters behind the world's most cutting-edge and timeless overland vehicles. The Osprey Custom Cars Team has been doing the LS3 engine conversion into the Land Rover Defender since 2013. We pride ourselves on being custom build and restoration specialists. We offer the finest custom quality overland vehicles and are proud to offer them for sale in the USA. As a low-volume vehicle manufacturer registered with the NHTSA since 2019, we now offer NEW vehicles — not "restored" or "rebuilt" — with VINs that are unique to the Osprey Custom brand as well as full restoration services!”
Click to expand...
I thought shady Defenders was Florida’s thing
 
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