Grenadier
- Thread starter WreckITFrank
- Start date
Safety regulations and mileage rules have really ruined car design
erover82
Well-known member
My F150 with the 2.7 Ecoboost, a relatively small and efficient modern engine (yet has 3x the power of a Tdi), and overall weighs 1,200 Lbs less than a Grenadier, still only gets high teens in real world mixed driving. The physics are stacked against large vehicle fuel efficiency.
Regarding complexity, they appear to be producing the simplest vehicle possible that still has all the required components to meet government regulations and customer expectations. The only "modern vehicle" you can buy which is comparable in complexity and function to classic 4x4s is a UTV.
Regarding complexity, they appear to be producing the simplest vehicle possible that still has all the required components to meet government regulations and customer expectations. The only "modern vehicle" you can buy which is comparable in complexity and function to classic 4x4s is a UTV.
WreckITFrank
Technical Excellence Contributor
As long as it's not worse than my 2016 LR4 SCV6, I'm in fuel economy bliss. My LR3 and LR4 are among the worst mileage efficient vehicles I've ever owned.
rocky
NAS-ROW Addict
Why do you think the Grenadier is rated for 14-15 mpg? I thought the BMW engine was fairly fuel efficient. The X7 with the same engine is rated 21 mpg city / 25 mpg highway and it has a similar weight (maybe a few hundred pounds more for the Gren). Even the Cullinan with the V12 is rated 20 mpg highway. It will be interesting to see real-world results. Maybe the EPA figures are underrated.
I think they should have given it a hybrid powertrain. All it needs is an electric motor between the engine and transmission with a battery pack. Shouldn't make it less reliable.
Edits:
Here's the architecture of the hybrid system. The electric motor is integrated into the ZF 8 speed transmission. They totally could have done that with the Grenadier. https://x-engineer.org/bmw-phev-powertrain-architecture/
Well this is interesting. ZF is going to make the 8-speed transmission in a hybrid version only going forward. So the Grenadier will have to become hybrid if they keep making it. ZF says volume production begins this year with a full transition in 2025. So I predict the 2026 Grenadier will be a plug-in hybrid. That's also when the smaller EV version is expected, so I think the hybrid will be launched alongside it. https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/stories/8speedautomatic.html
I found some real world mpg figures here. Someone in post #34 is getting 14 to 15 mpg (converted to US) over 1800 km with the petrol engine. Someone in post #47 is achieving 16 to 18 mpg (US) over 1400 miles.
What MPG are you getting
Yeah I'll be coming from a 200 series Land Cruiser with a 2" lift, KO2s that averages 12-14 mpg on the highway. Any gain will make me happywww.theineosforum.com
ZF builds 8 speed hybrid gearboxes for RAM pick ups both V6 and V8. Ram builds some of them under license as well. So its not rocket science.
My 2021 F150 V8 lifetime MPG is 19.7 over the 22,500 miles. Unladen its several hundred pounds lighter than a LR3/4. 11-12 mpg when towing my 90. But I hope for better with my new aluminum trailer. Best MPG 25.8 over 496 miles, part of a day long drive of 952 miles averaged 24.9mpg manually calculated. Ten speed, bed and cabin filled with papers and other household items. I assume the V8 dropped into 4 cylinder mode a fair bit.
blueboy
Well-known member
Very true yet I was referring to this:
“Just saw on the Gren forum that the 2024 models will have lane keep assist, emergency braking, speed limit sign recognition & adaptive cruise.”
Doesn’t sound like the stripped down, no nonsense, utilitarian 4x4 philosophy lasted too long imho.
The stripped down, no nonsense, utilitarian 4x4 has been legislated out of production by those safety requirements. That's why I'm keeping my IIa 109 - old and new!
evilfij
Well-known member
It depends. A 4runner is still 90s mechanical and when the nannies shit the bed it does not stop it from making forward progress.
I believe it will be one of the last non-direct injection vehicle for 2024 along with the pentastar V6 in the Jeep products as the V8 with GX and tacoma 4 banger ended with 2023 MY.
I believe it will be one of the last non-direct injection vehicle for 2024 along with the pentastar V6 in the Jeep products as the V8 with GX and tacoma 4 banger ended with 2023 MY.
That happened in 95 when OBD2 was mandated for 96 MY. The safety stuff just adds cost, it’s the emissions that added complexity and lead to turbo direct injection hybrid crap.
Andrew
Well-known member
It looks like that stuff is due to government regulations. NHTSA is making emergency braking required on all new cars and most automakers are equipping it voluntarily on almost all vehicles by the end of the year.
It's unfortunate that it isn't possible to sell a basic no-nonesense vehicle in the nanny state. Of course it's a good thing because it's kind of scary to be out on the road anymore with all the stupid & distracted drivers. Everyone in a hurry, on the phone, drunk/high, etc... There are parts of town I don't want to drive into at all anymore. I wouldn't feel comfortable driving the Defender anywhere in the city. Plus someone will probably steal the cats or break something on it if I leave it parked anywhere. A lot of people don't care about others or their property anymore. It's because the devil has gotten such a tight grip over our world now. And they think the devil doesn't exist as they were a t-shirt with an actual image of Satan on it or a hoodie with upside-down crosses and flames.
US safety agency to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles and set tougher standards
The U.S. government’s auto safety agency plans to require that all new passenger cars and light trucks include potentially life-saving automatic emergency braking and meet stricter safety standards within three years. The announcement by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration...
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blueboy
Well-known member
Thanks for the info. Was unaware NHTSA was going in that direction. And agree most people don’t respect others properly whether vehicles or land. The only time I drive the RRC into Pittsburgh is to visit a relative at their residence. In any case thx for the link / information.It looks like that stuff is due to government regulations. NHTSA is making emergency braking required on all new cars and most automakers are equipping it voluntarily on almost all vehicles by the end of the year.
It's unfortunate that it isn't possible to sell a basic no-nonesense vehicle in the nanny state. Of course it's a good thing because it's kind of scary to be out on the road anymore with all the stupid & distracted drivers. Everyone in a hurry, on the phone, drunk/high, etc... There are parts of town I don't want to drive into at all anymore. I wouldn't feel comfortable driving the Defender anywhere in the city. Plus someone will probably steal the cats or break something on it if I leave it parked anywhere. A lot of people don't care about others or their property anymore. It's because the devil has gotten such a tight grip over our world now. And they think the devil doesn't exist as they were a t-shirt with an actual image of Satan on it or a hoodie with upside-down crosses and flames.
US safety agency to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles and set tougher standards
The U.S. government’s auto safety agency plans to require that all new passenger cars and light trucks include potentially life-saving automatic emergency braking and meet stricter safety standards within three years. The announcement by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration...apnews.com
blueboy
Well-known member
Yep. And why a ‘94 LWB and ‘96 D1 reside in my garage.
Exactly.
rocky
NAS-ROW Addict
Update. The sales and service in Massachusetts and who knows where else in New England is going to be done next to Lev Kia in Framingham. Not quite sure how they are going to rework the two buildings there but we'll find out soon enough.
I assume this is a Federal requirement, they can't sell the vehicle without it?
The technology protects the distracted driver
blueboy
Well-known member
Appears that way to me. Guess it must be very difficult to recognize a Speed Limit sign while texting. However, it is a sign of the times and why personally more concerned about being in an accident caused by another driver vs one caused by my vehicle.
WreckITFrank
Technical Excellence Contributor
In case you are not on the forum...