Grenadier

rocky

rocky

NAS-ROW Addict
I don't know if people who call those features "Nannies" have ever driven a vehicle with adaptive cruise control, and all the other features or not. If not, please go get behind the wheel for a few thousand miles.

I've probably driven close to 100k miles on cars equipped with ACC etc and think they provide an excellent additional layer of safety for yourself and other road users.
Sure, it takes a while to get comfortable with the systems operational and ability. Sure it takes some time to learn when to use them properly and safely.
In the same way aircraft use auto pilot, and automatic preprogrammed navigation, and even autoland (there is a bit of manual input on that one). Those features are not nannies. They perform a valuable service.

Automatic cruise, Blind spot info, automatic braking, automatic restart from zero, etc etc etc are features I'll buy, use and encourage.
 
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Eliot

Well-known member
TJS said:
is my opinion that these functions encourage distracted and haphazard driving so I'm not thrilled but there's probably no way to avoid them on a new car these days.
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They absolutely make driving more dangerous. The rollover regulations are the most short sighted mandate in my opinion, most modern vehicles have poor to bad visibility from the drivers seat because of them.

I was driving a modern F150 recently and it had forward blind spots, which I’ve never experienced before. The junction of the a pillar and the mirrors, cars would just disappear behind that spot.
 
pmatusov

pmatusov

Technical Excellence Contributor
Callsign: AK6PM
OK, an update. I took another trip to the desert this morning - from San Diego to Superstition Mtn and back on one tank of gas (the first for me in a Land Rover).

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Got another half an hour behind the wheel, this time in the desert - sand, washboard, whatnot.
My son went with me - since only 3 people showed up in the morning including us, he also got to drive one.
The washboard was accompanied with quite a bit of booming noise in my truck - I suspect something was not fastened in the back, but it could just be the case. Driving along a soft sand berm with ~15 deg off-camber angle presented zero problems and zero drift.

I took another look at the suspension - the front arms' bushings are about the size of axle-end radius arms bushings in Land Rovers, so they aren't as small as they looked to me at first. I also looked at the frame - the framerails dwarf Defender/Classic/D1/D2 framerails, both in dimensions and thickness of steel. They are also waxed inside from the factory.

The axles are made in Italy by Carraro - https://www.carraro.com/en/ .
The driveshafts are made by Dana Spicer - should not be a problem to source the replacement parts.

Underside: there's a bash plate under the gas tank, and bolt holes for one under the transmission (but no plate). If it doesn't come with one from the factory, it will be a piece of cake to make out of 3/16" AL plate. There's an option for a bash plate extending from the bumper pretty much to the axle. The front axle's diff has two tapped holes in the bottom, just like Rover diffs - so you can make and mount a front driveshaft protector.

Took another look at the rear cabin arrangement: the folded backs of rear seats don't make a flat floor with cargo compartment, so if one wanted to travel with those, it offers a great reason to have about 4" tall sliders in the cargo compartment. It can be locked really nicely to the L-tracks, and, given the roof height, may be made neatly into a sleeping area for a tall person - Disco-style, with front feet between the front seats.
If you take the rear seats out, the base will form the flat floor with the cargo compartment - so it's all good in my book.
The wide part of the rear door has some shitty little compartment housing some useless crap like safety triangle or vest or whatnot - it can be unbolted and a cooking table could be bolted on without any hacking of the rear door, and that compartment is probably good for a hiker-style stove and a couple of little fuel cans.

Apparently, the U.S. prices will be announced on May 17, and people with reservations can pre-order their trucks for four weeks after that. The vehicles will be built in Sept-Oct and delivered to the customers before the end of the year. The price, of course, is a TS-SCI level secret, but they (unfortunately) aim halfway between the four-door Bronco and Wrangler and a G-wagen. That's a big gap, and it allows some wide latitude.
 
blueboy

blueboy

Well-known member
pmatusov said:
The wide part of the rear door has some shitty little compartment housing some useless crap like safety triangle or vest or whatnot
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Nice write up. When living in Switzerland safety triangle, vest, and other stuff was mandatory items to be carried in the vehicle. As you own a RRC, that narrow indent, passenger side, of the cargo area cover was made to hold the safety triangle - didn’t know that until the Liechtenstein dealer told me!
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pmatusov

pmatusov

Technical Excellence Contributor
Callsign: AK6PM
blueboy said:
Nice write up. When living in Switzerland safety triangle, vest, and other stuff was mandatory items to be carried in the vehicle. As you own a RRC, that narrow indent, passenger side, of the cargo area cover was made to hold the safety triangle - didn’t know that until the Liechtenstein dealer told me!
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You're right, I shouldn't have called it that. Still, the place's better for a trailside kitchen :)
 
evilfij

evilfij

Well-known member
The problem with all the Nannies is they add cost (initial and repair) and complexity.

The only one that is moderately useful is adaptive cruise control, but the vehicles I have with it, even at minimum gap, leave too long of a distance and people will cut you off to merge over in front of you sometimes and this leads to an unsafe and annoying (and probably unsafe if you are being tailgated) hard braking automatically. I know some have them work from 0mph, but mine don’t so it’s also useless the one time I would really want it which is when I am stuck in stop and go/very slow traffic.

Until there is full self driving where I can work/sleep/be drunk in my car none of this is particularly useful.

Meanwhile, price out the complicated parts on a new vehicle and it’s eye watering. And while some you can turn off, you can’t turn off error codes and the new clusters don’t have bulbs to pull.

I still want a no power anything (maybe steering, but manual steering on a series or defender is fine) no nannies mechanically injected no electronics diesel that won’t rust.
 
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Eliot

Well-known member
evilfij said:
Meanwhile, price out the complicated parts on a new vehicle and it’s eye watering. And while some you can turn off, you can’t turn off error codes and the new clusters don’t have bulbs to pull.
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I'm guessing you can reconfigure the computer, and set it to somewhere where these aren't required. And then you could physically pull the hardware, and swap in whatever lower spec ROW parts that are required. That's such a waste of time and money though, when you could just buy an older vehicle that was built without those drawbacks.
 
blueboy

blueboy

Well-known member
Eliot said:
That's such a waste of time and money though, when you could just buy an older vehicle that was built without those drawbacks.
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And/or keep a current older vehicle alive and well! When vehicles became so complex that the owners manual went to a CD the ease of actually finding simple “how tos” went away.
Example - rear turn signal bulb blew on my 2004 A4 Quattro Avant. Went to the owners manual the bulb type and how to change it with assembly removal instructions were there.
 
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pfshoen

Well-known member
Conventional cruise control is worth its weight in gold when trying to maintain a good speed without attracting unwanted attention from the authorities. ABS is proven to work better than the average driver's foot.
For myself, they can keep the rest. The whole lot can't work much better than google maps on a me-phone - pretty good most of the time isn't good enough.
If I'm the driver, I don't need the mental gymnastics of trying to deal with systems that override my input. When these features start showing up on F1 GP cars, I'll pay attention.
No question auto pilot and nav is great, although I've never used it. I try to keep an actual pilot on board any time the a/c is airborne. Lol. Those aids give pilots more time to maintain situational awareness and to manage complex and critical systems in an unforgiving environment. But when an auto land goes wrong, and they do, it's an effing disaster.
Although a lot of new cars have a more complex cockpit than many a/c's, driving one safely still is fairly simple and straightforward.
However, a lot of people don't pay attention well enough and/or are easily distracted. They need help, and it's against the law to try to slap some sense into them. It might be your rear end that's saved when a crash is prevented by a nanny feature.
 
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Eliot

Well-known member
pfshoen said:
However, a lot of people don't pay attention well enough and/or are easily distracted. They need help, and it's against the law to try to slap some sense into them. It might be your rear end that's saved when a crash is prevented by a nanny feature.
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Nanny features encourage them not to pay attention.
 
V

vtlandrover

Well-known member
The reality is, there's a ton of hardware in modern vehicles that isn't functional, depending on the market... for instance, most new cars have interlock devices (i.e. those that detect ETOH for convicted DUI motorists) hardwired and only require a plug-and-play device, rather than cutting into a wiring harness. Kind of like a built-in brake controller. Or, like my '22 Defender, the $1,200.00 optional adaptive cruise control's already there - just needs a flash of the software to activate. I didn't buy it, but I certainly paid for it.

You speak of your '04 Avant... my 45k mile 2001 Audi A4 manual 2.8 doesn't have seat heaters, but the harnesses are there. My point is, that's a 22-year-old vehicle that has extraneous, unused materials that I paid extra for. Kind of like the trailer light in the dash of my 1996 Defender 90 that's not hooked up...

www.cnn.com

Ford Mustang Mach-E has a mile of wires it doesn't need. That's a big deal

Ford showed this week that it's not going to be as easy for traditional automakers to catch Tesla in the race to build the better electric vehicle, despite what Tesla's doubters think.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
blueboy

blueboy

Well-known member
vtlandrover said:
The reality is, there's a ton of hardware in modern vehicles that isn't functional, depending on the market... for instance, most new cars have interlock devices (i.e. those that detect ETOH for convicted DUI motorists) hardwired and only require a plug-and-play device, rather than cutting into a wiring harness. Kind of like a built-in brake controller. Or, like my '22 Defender, the $1,200.00 optional adaptive cruise control's already there - just needs a flash of the software to activate. I didn't buy it, but I certainly paid for it.

You speak of your '04 Avant... my 45k mile 2001 Audi A4 manual 2.8 doesn't have seat heaters, but the harnesses are there. My point is, that's a 22-year-old vehicle that has extraneous, unused materials that I paid extra for. Kind of like the trailer light in the dash of my 1996 Defender 90 that's not hooked up...

www.cnn.com

Ford Mustang Mach-E has a mile of wires it doesn't need. That's a big deal

Ford showed this week that it's not going to be as easy for traditional automakers to catch Tesla in the race to build the better electric vehicle, despite what Tesla's doubters think.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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And that is the point and you gave very good examples. All add cost.
Very nice A4. Although like the Avant version. 😁
Same in my Rovers - gotta see that trailer light!
 
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vtlandrover

Well-known member
blueboy said:
And that is the point and you gave very good examples. All add cost.
Very nice A4. Although like the Avant version. 😁
Same in my Rovers - gotta see that trailer light!
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Me, too... I much prefer the Avant. I particularly enjoyed our Goodwood Green '04, and was frustrated they didn't offer the S4 in wagon variant.
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