Enjoy before restore?

[rovercolorado]

The pictures you posted are not "Bad" at all. As stated very typical Rover and pretty clean compared to others pictures I have seen. My 1991 truck is from Spain and is "dry" but shows about the same as yours. I have the 200 Tdi from factory and I'm overall very happy with the performance and mileage. I can hit 70 if I want and 65 with no issues. I have had zero issues getting service parts so far but I'm not trying to find a complete engine. I have to think that going more Rover than non Rover would be easier and not take as long.
I vote enjoy the running truck and address the issues along the way. That has been my approach and so far it has kept me driving it everyday.

 

[AdamSanta85]

200TDI parts are pretty easy to come by. You will pay up for injectors and or injector rebuilds, but most likely that will be a 1 time if anytime deal. Apparently cylinder head is expensive too if you for some reason need one. Everything else is easy to come by.

Having the truck be that slow would drive me mad too. Especially with people driving so fast. By me if you aren't doing 75/80 on the freeway you are pissing people off. Even on side roads most people do 50 in a 30mph.

I would swap motor before a full rebuild. Based on your photos your truck looks like every other Rover.

 

[BenLittle]

Not sure I can add anything that hasn't already been said...

I just completed a full restoration on my 1986 ex-MOD. I imported it in August of 2013 to Long Beach, CA. I drove the truck back to Utah and 2 months later I had a bare, sandblasted chassis that was getting hot-dipped galvanized. Every nut, bolt, bracket etc. was bagged and labeled and I took hundreds of photo's and many videos of various things that I was sure I wouldn't remember upon reassembly.

Fast forward 3 years - my truck sat in a storage unit for over a year while we moved and built a house. Fortunately I had meticulously stored everything.

My advice would be this. Figure out what you want the truck to 'be' and go from there. Almost 100% of the fasteners on my truck were rusted and brittle. Both of my floor panels appeared 'tidy' in the pictures but with a small tap of a hammer; the brittle and rusted panels broke through. Even the spring perches were almost rusted out.

I personally had 1 goal - build a solid truck. I realize that's extremely subjective and some will say that should have started with a new engine. Maybe that's true.. for me, that meant replacing 100% of the fasteners, bushings, suspension, brakes etc., while doing a full color change. In addition, that meant building the truck on a solid chassis with corrosion resistant fasteners that would hold up to the harsh Utah winters. The hard part is done. Pulling an engine, replacing diffs and axles etc. is the easy part IMO.

If you're not dealing with pervasive corrosion, I would say leave it as-is.

Whatever you're expecting... Expect more.

 

[Tbaumer]

Was about to pull the trigger on the 300 tdi, now I'm reconsidering the 200.
If parts are available, what is the biggest advantage of going with the 300?
Do I have to switch to the puma style bonnet with the 300?
I like the original bonnet look better.

 

[Dan kemper]

Definitely do not have to swap bonnets and agree on original flat bonnet.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

Was about to pull the trigger on the 300 tdi, now I'm reconsidering the 200.
If parts are available, what is the biggest advantage of going with the 300?
Do I have to switch to the puma style bonnet with the 300?
I like the original bonnet look better.

There is not much difference between the two, many of the parts are interchangeable. The power output difference is 2-3 hp.

To me the bigger difference is the transmissions and there is an r380 retrofit for the 200.

 

[chris snell]

The primary advantage of the 300Tdi is that it was produced for so many more years, so there are simply far more spare parts (the motor-specific ones) in the system. Personally, I would only run a 300Tdi for this reason.

 

[chris snell]

For my truck, I essentially kept the body and interior and everything else was either bought new (ancillaries), remanufactured (Turner crate motor, gearbox, t-case), or restored (axles) by me.

Believe it or not, breaking down the truck to a roller and rebuilding that roller on a fresh chassis w/ the new drivetrain took very little time--thanks to a few friends who helped lend a hand. The bulk of the chassis and motor swap was done in a month of weekends.

What took the remaining five months was all of the little things. Fixing flaky headlight wiring, getting the winch wired up, getting the new dash gauges in...these little jobs took forever. It was an endless cycle of work, place order for missing parts, wait for missing parts to arrive from UK, install, rinse, repeat. None of the work is hard but it requires perseverance and some people end up selling half-completed trucks at fire sale prices because they just couldn't see it through.

Like Ben recommends above, I recommend taking a few long trips in your truck to learn about what your desired end-state is before buying any motors or tearing anything apart.

 

[JohnsD90]

You should message Robert Davis if you want sufficient power and still be somewhat refined, I took a ride in his 2.8L Isuzu 4JB1T 110 and it was so smooth and blew the doors off any 4cyl Rover-made Diesel I had been in.

 

[Tbaumer]

Thanks for all the advise. I have spent the last year gaining respect for all the knowledge in this community.
Read Robert Davis' threads on a few different engines he has put in Defenders - That guy has some skills!
I am really hesitant to get away from Rover specific parts though, probably because I have not swapped in different manufacture parts in any vehicle I have ever owned.
For sure I am going to do the engine and hold off on the full restore.
That makes the 200 tdi more appealing because it avoids a lot of the tear down.
Leaning that way now...
With the seeming surplus of 300 tdi parts, I can always do that conversion when I I am ready to park it for a while (That might be 5 years from now).
Stay tuned, I will probably change my mind right up until the purchase.

 

[Tbaumer]

Uncle Douglas - Is the R380 retrofit you refer to, the same "Stumpy conversion kit" that Sonorous on the source posted?
I am doing a lot of flipping between the sights these days trying to educate myself.
Curious if just the 200 tdi engine change alone will satisfy my power needs.
R380 and kit can be put in after...?
Not many local examples to check out.

 

[Tbaumer]

After checking out the R380 stumpy retro kit and seeing the adjustments needed to fit an after market custom set up in order to allow the 200 tdi to work with the R380, I'm going with the 300 tdi.
#1 reason - future repairs and availability. Done deal.
Can't really show my boys how to be decisive young men if I can't set an example and make a choice.
Ordered 300 tdi with new radiator and clutch today from Julian at Global Land Rovers.

 

[AdamSanta85]

After checking out the R380 stumpy retro kit and seeing the adjustments needed to fit an after market custom set up in order to allow the 200 tdi to work with the R380, I'm going with the 300 tdi.
#1 reason - future repairs and availability. Done deal.
Can't really show my boys how to be decisive young men if I can't set an example and make a choice.
Ordered 300 tdi with new radiator and clutch today from Julian at Global Land Rovers.

I am pretty sure the R380 stumpy is more or less plug and play with LT77 transmission trucks. "They can be fitted to the 2.5 N/A, 2.5 petrol and the 200 TDI engines, anywhere the 4 Cyl LT77 is fitted". The "newer" H LT77 boxes are supposedly strong too.

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/manual-gearboxes/short-bellhousing-r380.html

If you are doing a 300 with R380 you need to change the seatbox or modify the tunnel and stuff IIRC. Aside from welding in engine mounts etc.

 

[Tbaumer]

Thanks for the info.
I have gone back and forth on this in my mind so many times and each new bit of information makes me flip - Feels like I should be watching the housewife channels until I get it out of my system (No, I'm not serious about that).
The goal was/is to get more power, so I can enjoy my truck until I do the inevitable restore one day.
I woke up today thinking that if I plan on putting the 300 tdi in when I treat the chassis and body paint, then the 200 tdi feels temporary.
I even thought "So what? I might love it! and if I don't, I'll sell it down the road when I go all in on the restore."
I'm getting the 300 tdi, holding on to it, getting the set up for the rest of the 110 that I want, THEN I'll install it.
Until then, I can't complain about how slow I go, because I could have just dropped in a 200 tdi.

 

[DefendersNW]

Ted - come up to the shop and lets get you behind the wheel of a 200tdi with the lt77 and an all in 300tdi/lt230/r380 truck so you have a first hand picture of the differences.

 

[AdamSanta85]

Ted - come up to the shop and lets get you behind the wheel of a 200tdi with the lt77 and an all in 300tdi/lt230/r380 truck so you have a first hand picture of the differences.

Do the 200/LT77 vs 300/R380 drive very different? There is only a 4hp difference at similar RPM. I would think the 300 would just be a bit quieter?

 

[DefendersNW]

Do the 200/LT77 vs 300/R380 drive very different? There is only a 4hp difference at similar RPM. I would think the 300 would just be a bit quieter?

The transmissions drive very differently - engine baseline is so close you would be hard pressed to tell the difference if geared the same.

Benefit to the 300 is ease of maintenance and supply chain for parts.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

Uncle Douglas - Is the R380 retrofit you refer to, the same "Stumpy conversion kit" that Sonorous on the source posted?
I am doing a lot of flipping between the sights these days trying to educate myself.
Curious if just the 200 tdi engine change alone will satisfy my power needs.
R380 and kit can be put in after...?
Not many local examples to check out.

No. What Ed posted is a kit to convert a 300tdi r380 to the shorter stumpy configuration. A 300 tdi r380 has a long bell housing and input shaft as the engine sits much further forward. The r380 "stumpy" is a short version meant to be an exact replacement for the lt77 like you have now. The advantage of the stumpy is it dramtically reduces the other changes you will have to make.
Many swear by the 200 and prefer them over the 300. There is no discernible difference in sound or seat of the pants feel when driving them and I have owned several of both. To me the biggest difference between the two is the 300 is a bit easier to change the timing belt on and the 300 front covers are all set up for air conditioning where 200's were not.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

In order to put a 300 into a truck with a 2.5 you go can two ways.

Either way you will need another transfer case as the tdi wont work well with a 1.6 unless you run very tall tires. Either way you will need to weld in new frame side mounts in the engine bay.

The transmission choice drives what else you need to do.

1) You can mate it to your lt77 or you can go with an r380 stumpy. These two allow you to not have to change the bulkhead flange, trans tunnel, floors and seat box.

2) you can go with the r380 made for the 300 and this will require you get the correct cross member, floors, tunnel, bulkhead flange and either adapt your seaabox or buy a new one.

Don't try to use the 2.5 fuel filter setup with the tdi. That filter assembly design sucks and many have burned up their injection pumps trying to start their trucks after running out of fuel- the air being purged is returned right back to the filter and then right back to the injection pump, not directly to the tank as it should have been.

 

[DefendersNW]

2) you can go with the r380 made for the 300 and this will require you get the correct cross member, floors, tunnel, bulkhead flange and either adapt your seatbox or buy a new one.

And propshafts...


Doug is correct in that a 300tdi conversion done right is invasive - rewarding, but parts heavy and labor intensive work. I'd suggest going whole hog if you can manage and building to a single model year spec for future service and parts ordering.

One can always add an overdrive to help the road manners of an LT77, or keep it under 65mph on the highway. Once off-pavement either one will work equally well.