Enjoy before restore?

[Tbaumer]

Wow.
And here I thought I did my homework.
The 200 tdi sounds less daunting for sure, and more in line with my desire to not modify anymore than I have to.
The down side to being in an area without a bunch of Defenders around to see firsthand what is involved.
The upside is I'm the coolest guy in town.

 

[Tbaumer]

I only get the chance to log on late in the evening, so I miss some important information during business hours when decisions are made.
No matter which way I wind up it's going to turn out great!
You only absorb so much reading someone else's threads and, as these sites are the primary information I get on these trucks, I'm still learning the right questions to ask.

 

[rovercolorado]

One more thing if you ever want an auto the 300 is the way to go as fitting a auto to the 200 is not possible. It's really all about transmissions not really the engine as they are basically the same.

 

[Tbaumer]

Changed my order to the 200 tdi.
So it won't be as quiet and I can't add auto...
Took the truck out for a spin to remind myself why I'm changing anything at all.
It is such a different experience compared to anything I have ever had.
I like the tractor sound and handling! I like the lack of creature comforts!
I just need power. I'll wait on the rest until the basic thrill wears off.

 

[RBBailey]

That's exactly why I am keeping my Series IIa stock. There's nothing like it in the world. And driving it just puts you into another time and another place.

On the other hand! One of the reasons I bought the Defender was to purposefully make it a blend of the tractor that actually goes on the road. I am improving it, but it is not my intention to make it posh.

Having enough power to use it on modern roads, in modern traffic, is an actual thing. If you really do want to drive it, and take it out overland, you should look into upgrades.

I think the only thing I would tell you is to be sure of what you want before you jump in. I went and drove a 110 with an International Tdi before I bought the 300Tdi for my truck. I basically confirmed what I had expected. You'd be very welcome to take mine for a spin once I get it on the road!

Also, you should take a look at joining the PCRC. You will find some connections down in your area. This web site is exactly perfect for anything and everything Defender related, but nothing can be done about the fact that a good many of the people on here are actually 1000's of miles away! Being in the local club gets you closer to home.

Whatever you end up doing, keep us all posted.

 

[JoeP]

I don't get the om617 swap. Why replace a gutless yet dependable lump with another gutless yet dependable lump that tends to leak and is heavier?

I'm wanting to do a om602 swap into one with the KKK turbo from a 603 and delivery elements from a 617.


Or the 2.7 from a Sprinter with a few select mods. If one will push that brick at 80 it should loaf along at 80 in a 110.

 

[Daddymow]

Why do you call the om617 gutless?

 

[Daddymow]

Yes a very gutless lump of shit worse than a 2.5n/a.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24afjVqm2Uw

 

[Uncle Douglas]

Changed my order to the 200 tdi.
So it won't be as quiet and I can't add auto...

Congratulations on your purchase.

FWIW I have had 200 tdi automatics. Many late 200 tdi discoveries were automatic and that drive train drops right into a defender. A 200 is quieter than a 300 ?

 

[Tbaumer]

Everything about these engines I am gleaning from hours of reading. There are A TON of different opinions out there, so it can be a challenge to confidently know. I plan on making some time to get up north to Gig Harbor for some eyes on verification.
I was told the 200 tdi had a louder, less smooth sound compared to the 300.
I have always liked shifting and hearing my engine and can't ever see putting an auto in.
A local club would be awesome! I'll check out the PCRC.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

Biggest sound difference is the turbo's. The defender 200 has it up high just under the bonnet and it is a good bit more audible than the 300 turbo which is tucked down on the side of the block just above the frame rail. How ea engine sounds has everything to do with the valves being adjusted and idle speed adjustment.

 

[JoeP]

Why do you call the om617 gutless?

Depends on the comparison. A 617 compared to a 602 or 648 is gutless. Compared to a 200, yeah, it's a upgrade in power but heavier due to being all cast.

The cdi's can be tuned for a lot more as well.

The 602 is lighter, makes a little more in stock form and will hold more fuel and boost and stay together. Plus your not adjusting valve every 15k.

I just don't get the swap is all. Beyond there being a larger supply of 617s in the us the 602 is infinitely more refined and more tunable.

The 2.7 is even more refined. Delete the egr and add 5 micron filters and they are more bulletproof than the 617 or 602.

Now a 606...........


Those things can be insanely tuned. You'd just need a lot of custom pieces as you need to set the thing 5-6" rearward and flip the sump.


That's the other thing ass these guys are front sump mills which can be challenging in the defender setup. I ran into the same stuff swapping 603s into fzj80s. The 602,3 and 6 all have similar block besigns.

 

[donb]

Depends on the comparison. A 617 compared to a 602 or 648 is gutless. Compared to a 200, yeah, it's a upgrade in power but heavier due to being all cast.

The cdi's can be tuned for a lot more as well.

The 602 is lighter, makes a little more in stock form and will hold more fuel and boost and stay together. Plus your not adjusting valve every 15k.

I just don't get the swap is all. Beyond there being a larger supply of 617s in the us the 602 is infinitely more refined and more tunable.

The 2.7 is even more refined. Delete the egr and add 5 micron filters and they are more bulletproof than the 617 or 602.

Now a 606...........


Those things can be insanely tuned. You'd just need a lot of custom pieces as you need to set the thing 5-6" rearward and flip the sump.


That's the other thing ass these guys are front sump mills which can be challenging in the defender setup. I ran into the same stuff swapping 603s into fzj80s. The 602,3 and 6 all have similar block besigns.

How are OM602's to source and what's the price on them?

That is one good thing about the OM617 - engine and parts seem to be plenty available in the USA.

My OM617 with an M Pump and 7.5 elements has been good. I have a Holset HX30 to install as well. When cold it rattles hard but when driving at 40-50MPH it is really smooth and has a fair bit of power. I still need some highway time with it but it's been a lot better than the LR 2.5NA it replaced. I haven't had any driving time on a 200/300tdi to compare.

 

[roverform]

You are close enough to Gig Harbor, WA to go up to Defenders Northwest and do your own engine swap. You pay them for the parts and the shop time/labor they spend helping you and you get it done correctly. You learn a ton about your new motor in the process. I did an entire resto this way and ended up with a great truck that I trust completely--I've personally worked on almost all of it.

I agree with and support this 100% as I am in the same process. Can't go wrong at DNW.

 

[JoeP]

How are OM602's to source and what's the price on them?

That is one good thing about the OM617 - engine and parts seem to be plenty available in the USA.

My OM617 with an M Pump and 7.5 elements has been good. I have a Holset HX30 to install as well. When cold it rattles hard but when driving at 40-50MPH it is really smooth and has a fair bit of power. I still need some highway time with it but it's been a lot better than the LR 2.5NA it replaced. I haven't had any driving time on a 200/300tdi to compare.

602 parts are available. Only weakness is for some reason timing chain stretch is a issue.

They only put them in 1 model in the us for a couple years so they are in no way as plentiful as the 617.

They are a better lump though.

As far as the 2.5na I think a 1.9 whiteblock would be a upgrade.

I'm starting research on putting a 5.9 24v Cummins in one of these. That thing should solve all the power questions.

Edit. I've seen decent miles w124 cars that are 602 power sub 1200.00 us as donors. The adapter would be a custom piece and in Europe most were manual so flywheels are out there.

 

[Tbaumer]

It occurs to me that I should ask what I should be addressing before and during the time I have no engine in the way.
Offers to share their experience are much appreciated and I will be taking you up on it when I have my engine kit in hand.
I learn a lot from reading old threads, so maybe someone else will learn from this.
What, besides the engine, radiator, clutch and transmission, should I be prepared to restore/treat/replace?

 

[Lucasd2002]

It occurs to me that I should ask what I should be addressing before and during the time I have no engine in the way.
Offers to share their experience are much appreciated and I will be taking you up on it when I have my engine kit in hand.
I learn a lot from reading old threads, so maybe someone else will learn from this.
What, besides the engine, radiator, clutch and transmission, should I be prepared to restore/treat/replace?

What, if anything, are you planning to do to the frame and bulkhead?

 

[AdamSanta85]

It occurs to me that I should ask what I should be addressing before and during the time I have no engine in the way.
Offers to share their experience are much appreciated and I will be taking you up on it when I have my engine kit in hand.
I learn a lot from reading old threads, so maybe someone else will learn from this.
What, besides the engine, radiator, clutch and transmission, should I be prepared to restore/treat/replace?

Maybe some stuff on engine. Timing belt, fuel pump, valve adjustment adjustment, maybe water pump

 

[Tbaumer]

Not doing anything with the frame & bulkhead unless something reveals itself when everything is visible. I expect to find areas that need sealing & rust proofing & can't really go wrong with hidden spot painting after treatment.
Mostly, I'm asking to avoid mistakes that are probably common sense to those familiar with this swap.

 

[DefendersNW]

Look after the heater box - much easier to remove, rebuild, and reinstall when you can simply stand in the engine bay, and all the ancillaries are out of the way.

If you plan to run lights, winch, or other auxiliary electrical components running circuits while things are open is also easier (goes for battery box and ground strapping as well)

If you plan to upgrade anything on the motor - don't buy twice and install the upgrades (VNT turbo, or double depth IC/Radiator for example) while you are at it.

Clutch is a must - and looking after suspension, prop-shafts, etc... is easier as well.

Not much else exposed with a 200 swap (vs a 300 where you drop the transmission/transfer box and change crossmember, etc...) so it is a more straightforward process.