Cummins Repower ISF 2.8 for Defenders

Overlander

Well-known member
I think about it everyday. Can't wait. Starting a place holder thread. Word on the street is end of 1Q 2017. Cummins is apparently working up drop in kits for Jeeps, Toyota's and Rovers.

I'm probably going to go with an Ashcroft beefed up Rover ZF. But things to think about in my head are:

  1. Power steering?
  2. Intercooler and radiator? are the 300 TDI versions going to work? it seems that the radiator/intercooler brackets would need to be reversed.
  3. engine mounts?
  4. what manual transmission? Rover or other?
  5. transmission hump? will it fit the powertrain?
 

Daddymow

Well-known member
Excited to see how this turns out! I mean I really like my 200 but this motor sounds awesome.
 

Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
I think first quarter is when they will release a few engines to field testers. Ie shops that will install them in different marques. I think the engines being offered for public sale will be a bit further protracted.
 

rocky

Well-known member
I think this is potentially one of the best things to happen. Parts availability is so crucial. Let's face it that's already a bit of a problem for the tdi's.
 

LR Max

Well-known member
I saw one they installed in a TJ. Used the TJ radiator, forgot what they used for the intercooler.

It is a fly-by-wire engine, but they have a harness and throttle pedal that was pretty much bolt in.

For transmission, specs for this engine are 267 ft-lb. So 360 Nm...R380 is rated for 380Nm. I guess if you have a R380 in good shape, it'll be fine?? However it would be cool to stick this behind a NV3550 and then get a custom Orion Transfer case made. That would be super slick. 4.3 low range and 1.1 high range. I think this engine could pull it.

The 2.8 is currently offered in the US as an industrial engine. So the nice thing is that the hardware is pretty much the same, so all the cummins shops have training, tools, and spares.
 

mgreenspan

Founding Member
Price will determine the success. The best "swap" already exists with the LS for daily use and ease of repair/parts sourcing. If you want diesel factory fitted 300tdis are almost available to import. After that diesel engine swaps in import trucks will be a thing of the past.

Trust me, as cool as a larger 4 cylinder turbo diesel engine that comes out of one of these in a 110 is, it gets old not having a standard Rover setup. I loved the SL35TI in my 110 but i would have never paid even the $6k or 7k that Shayne was trying to get people to pay him for the one he had sitting for a couple of years. It was great that it wanted to keep accelerating onthe highway and was really reliable and efficient but my experience with diesel shops in three different states is nobody wants to work on anything that isnt factory anymore. I'd stick with Rover and stick to Rover shops if you don't want to do it all yourself.
 

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xplorutah

Well-known member
Price will determine the success. The best "swap" already exists with the LS for daily use and ease of repair/parts sourcing. If you want diesel factory fitted 300tdis are almost available to import. After that diesel engine swaps in import trucks will be a thing of the past.

Trust me, as cool as a larger 4 cylinder turbo diesel engine that comes out of one of these in a 110 is, it gets old not having a standard Rover setup. I loved the SL35TI in my 110 but i would have never paid even the $6k or 7k that Shayne was trying to get people to pay him for the one he had sitting for a couple of years. It was great that it wanted to keep accelerating onthe highway and was really reliable and efficient but my experience with diesel shops in three different states is nobody wants to work on anything that isnt factory anymore. I'd stick with Rover and stick to Rover shops if you don't want to do it all yourself.
I ran into this very issue with my ROW. I think non Rover shops hear diesel and then Rover and want nothing to do with it. Ran into this issue while in California last year. Personally I am contemplating an ACR 4.8L in my NAS90. Stays Rover that way. And I think it is an accepted mod when looking to sell on, if that happens.
 

Mack

Active member
I almost have the opposite feeling with regards to a non-land rover swap. The attraction for me with the Cummins 2.8 is that a qualified Cummins mechanic can work on it for you, and to me that seems easier than finding a trusted Land Rover diesel mechanic. As long as you do a clean job on the swap I don't see why a Cummins mechanic would turn you away. I loved my 200tdi, I daily drove it for years and put a lot of miles on it.
The 2.8 is going to be hugely different than a 200/300tdi. Even with all the normal tdi mods, the 200tdi wasn't enough power for me. The 2.8 will have as much power as any modded tdi, and it's only at that power level for emissions reasons. I remember reading that Cummins will offer a tune without emissions controls and it will do over 200hp and around 400tq. I don't see any Land Rover diesel doing that reliably any time soon.
I agree that price will be a factor, but I'm not going to stop liking defenders anytime soon, and if I have to pay a little more to get a more powerful yet modern diesel, so be it.
 

Overlander

Well-known member
I almost have the opposite feeling with regards to a non-land rover swap. The attraction for me with the Cummins 2.8 is that a qualified Cummins mechanic can work on it for you, and to me that seems easier than finding a trusted Land Rover diesel mechanic. As long as you do a clean job on the swap I don't see why a Cummins mechanic would turn you away. I loved my 200tdi, I daily drove it for years and put a lot of miles on it.
The 2.8 is going to be hugely different than a 200/300tdi. Even with all the normal tdi mods, the 200tdi wasn't enough power for me. The 2.8 will have as much power as any modded tdi, and it's only at that power level for emissions reasons. I remember reading that Cummins will offer a tune without emissions controls and it will do over 200hp and around 400tq. I don't see any Land Rover diesel doing that reliably any time soon.
I agree that price will be a factor, but I'm not going to stop liking defenders anytime soon, and if I have to pay a little more to get a more powerful yet modern diesel, so be it.
100% agree. Finding a shop that is willing and able to work on a Rover TDI is an act of luck. For guys like me with a non-rover day job and the desire to travel about far and away from that shop you are lucky enough to find, having an engine that can be worked on anywhere is very appealing.

I will also do everything in my power to never have another aluminum head and block ever again. The only true "bullet proof" in my experience is cast iron.
 

mgreenspan

Founding Member
The attraction for me with the Cummins 2.8 is that a qualified Cummins mechanic can work on it for you,
I know that's how it should work, but that concept is not how I've experienced interacting with shops that work on brand specific things when they are on Rovers and no matter what Cummins says, I wouldn't count that into any swap decision matrix.

The LS works because so many shops work on them eventually one will say yes.

It's not the same as taking a 300tdi truck to a shop that has techs that have worked on them before.
 

Overlander

Well-known member
I know that's how it should work, but that concept is not how I've experienced interacting with shops that work on brand specific things when they are on Rovers and no matter what Cummins says, I wouldn't count that into any swap decision matrix.

The LS works because so many shops work on them eventually one will say yes.

It's not the same as taking a 300tdi truck to a shop that has techs that have worked on them before.
well that then depends on where you are. I've spent the last 10 years trying to find a shop in Charlotte that can work on a rover TDI to no avail. Lot of $ down the toilette letting shops with no experience try.

It makes no sense to me to have a truck you have to drop $1k round trip to ship it to another city or state when something goes wrong. That's the clue that you have the wrong engine.
 

Landy_Andy

Well-known member
I think once the Jeep guys start installing these R2.8's you'll not have an issue getting Cummins shops working on them. It's not like the repower program is just aimed at LR's, Cummins has it aimed at a much wide customer base, with Jeeps being near the top.

For anyone who doesn't follow Extreme 4x4, here is Ian's Jeep chassis'd D90 with one going in it using a AX15 transmission & Advance Adaptors bell housing.
 

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mgreenspan

Founding Member
I'd agree that in places like Denver or C-springs or Atlanta for example where there is a large population that would actually pay to convert lots of Jeeps you mighy succeed in finding a place to do it or work on it in a Rover. The idea that any place in the US that works on Cummins engines will do it I dont believe.
 

chris snell

Administrator
Callsign: NW5W
Staff member
What's the advantage of running this 2.8 over, say, an LS? Is there a significant mileage or horsepower difference?

For me, the choice of engine in a Defender boils down to what you want to do with it. For what I do with my truck--multi-week, vehicle-dependent trips on routes far away from gas stations--the 300Tdi is just about perfect. It gets great mileage. It's not fast but it's fast enough. It's dead simple and easy to learn to work on, and the trail spares collection is not huge.

However, if my truck was a daily driver on a commute, I'd want power and mileage would be irrelevant. I drive a 2017 Ram with a 6.7L Cummins and I love it. It's a truly awesome motor. But, what's so great about this 2.8L? How is it better than an LS, which virtually any decent mechanic can work on? Cummins mechanics aren't exactly everywhere.
 

rocky

Well-known member
To me LS v cummins is an apples to oranges comparison.

An apples to apples would be Cummins to 2/300tdi. Or Rover V8 to LS. There are valid reasons for each engine choice.
 
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