Brakes & Things

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
The rotors and pads all look good when checking from under the truck, but I’ve noticed a brake squeak when driving. If I tap the brakes it stops. Caliper piston sticking?
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
So... here's my line of logic that might be stupid.

I can't detect that the hubs are loose by the standard means of rocking the wheel back and forth in the air.

My brakes work fine, but... since adjusting the rear drums, the pedal travels about 2x as far as it used to before the brakes engage as normal. Again, once they engage, they are normal.

If I pump it once, the pedal will travel the "normal" distance before engaging. But multiple pumps of the pedal don't cause it to get more stiff. And if I hold it hard, there is no fade.

Adding this to the fact that I get brake squeak while driving that goes away with a slight tap on the pedal, I think it is not the hubs, but the calipers.

Follow? Any problem with this theory?
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
If you adjusted the rear brakes and now your pedal travels twice as far they are misadjusted. if your brakes require a pump to function correctly then something is in wrong in the system.

A brake squeal will not be caused by a loose hub.

If you can't tell what the wheel up in the air if there's any movement at the hub then it's not the hub that is causing these issues. Keep in mind that there are many different points of movement in the front wheel. You could have play at the swivel ball pins, wheel bearings / hub and the tie rod ends.they all exhibit a different type of behavior when moving the wheel when it is jacked up off the ground if there is an issue.

You probably just have a small amount of vibration that's happening at the pad to caliper. Check the retention springs on the pads if equipped and/or add some anti-squeal paste to them. If you see that one of the pistons is not fully touching the pad from above you may need to do a caliper rebuild as you could have a sticky piston.


Step 1 is adjust your rear brakes correctly to eliminate the extra pump that is required for your brakes to function.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Problem is, I've adjusted the rears to the point where one click further on the cam = pretty much locked up. And a pedal that is very solid. One click back = nearly zero response in the pedal. All four adjustment cams have been tweaked to just the right spot where any tighter or any looser just doesn't work.

BTW, I cannot detect any leaks either.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
A brake squeal will not be caused by a loose hub.
If the hub is loose very often the brakes will squeal when driving without applying the brakes. This is even common on newer Land Rovers when the hub has failed.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
I should also add that a loose hub will cause the rotor to push the pads and pistons back in the calliper which will require pumping the brakes to regain a firm pedal.
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
Even though I've never seen it I don't doubt it if you've seen this type of failure before.

but I will say though is that if the hub movement is inperceptible when the wheel is jacked up. Then it's not the hub.


I would definitely solve the issue of having to pump up the brakes prior to worrying about if they're squealing or not. Test your booster and if your master is old it could be the master.

Check every component of the system. If you have a PWDA valve check that if you have a g valve check that.

if you see no external leaks but you still have to pump it up most likely either the booster or the master is gone IF and only if everything is correctly adjusted. it may be worthwhile taking the drums off in the rear and making sure all the springs and adjusters are in the proper orientation.


After going through three master cylinders on my truck and a booster I switched over to the Chevy equipment. It's a bit of a project but entirely doable in one day.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I should also add that a loose hub will cause the rotor to push the pads and pistons back in the calliper which will require pumping the brakes to regain a firm pedal.
This is what I was initially thinking, and describing, but I don't think so, since the hub seems OK.

I'm curious though, if this is a master or booster problem (13k on the components) wouldn't holding the pedal down result in a slow fade? Note that the difference between pedal movement isn't changing the effectiveness of the braking, simply the amount of pedal motion before that effectiveness happens. Also, the other day I noticed that the pedal seemed to be working as normal for that one drive, then back to the looser version.

I'm stopping by Ship's Mechanical tomorrow afternoon, so I will see if he has the time to take it for a drive.
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
The Land Rover components Sturgis extremely low quality. the originals in the aftermarket master cylinders are just garbage.

It's sad that a $49 cast iron Chinese made Chevrolet cylinder is just better in almost every way
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
It's not for everyone, some may find it easier to start with stock replacement...get it working and then plan an upgrade
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
Because then you know what the problem is! I never like introducing new variables to an equation that I don't already have the answer to....but that's just me
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Ah, I was reading that a different way.

But that does lead back to my original issue -- figuring out the problem.

When a master or booster goes bad, don't those usually manifest by having brake fade?
How should I check the master and booster?

What I think I'm feeling in the pedal is extra space between the pads and disc (or drum, as the case may be) or between the pistons and pads. I can still lock up all four wheels with the same amount of pressure on the pedal, it's just that I have to move further to get to that point.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
If you think an individual wheel is causing an issue you can remove that wheel from the hydraulic circuit by installing a brake bleed screw in place of one of the lines. It is a good idea to carry a spare bleed screw because you can use it if you have a brake fluid leak to stop the fluid from flowing to the leaking area. For example, I had a hard brake line for my right rear calliper chafe against the fuel tank after and had the line rupture at 1am on Interstate 95 outside of Washington DC. I still had a 1.5 hour drive to my destination in Va. I just pulled the bleed screw from the right rear calliper and installed it on the T junction on the rear axle. I made it to Va, then drove back to NYC two days later with no issue.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I've had a few other people step on the pedal to see what they think. Everyone thinks it is extra space between a pad and disk or drum, but I can't see where it is happening.

On a side note, I have a set of Goodrich +2" lines that I have been meaning to put in, and this is looking like a good time to do it. However, when I pulled them out of the box, it is easy to see that these are a good 2" shorter than the lines currently on the truck. I'm sort of at a loss for what to do/think about that. They are the right part number.
 

BarryO

Well-known member
I've had a few other people step on the pedal to see what they think. Everyone thinks it is extra space between a pad and disk or drum, but I can't see where it is happening.
For disk brakes I don't see how that works. When you step on the pedal, the pads are squeezed against the rotor, but when you let up, nothing retracts them (assuming nothing is making the rotor wobble). They just sit there lightly touching the rotor.

Have you tried bleeding the system?
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Right. That is why I think the squeak I hear is part of this. I can’t figure out where the wobble is coming from, but that’s my theory. I should bleed, but have not had the time.

Anyone have any advice on the SS lines?
 
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