Battery Box Set Up

[RBBailey]

OK, time to start working on this.
I need to spend the budget on other things right now, so no dual battery, yet. But I do have the parts to get my fuse block set up for accessories. I'm missing a few of the odd bits here and there, and most importantly, some kind of main fuse between the battery and the accessories fuses.

I've seen others use the Maxi Fuse type block, like what Blue Sea has, and I have 4 gauge cable for this job. Assuming that the cable can handle the amperage, the fuse block is rated at 30 amps per fuse, 90 amps total per side, max 100, for a total max amperage of 200. I seriously doubt I will ever have six 30 amp fuses in there, but given the possibility of as much as 180 amps being called upon, what size should be the maxi fuse? Do I add up the total amps I could possibly use for the accessories I have in there?

Some general questions:

• Chris, how's that one battery holding up?
• What is the consensus on using some kind of battery cut off? At this point, I could either use a solenoid, with a master switch, or a Blue Sea switch in the line. Which would you use, and why? (Either of these would be an easy conversion to dual batteries at a later date.)
• For the future, when it comes to putting two batteries into the box, the floor has that trench in it, and the outside half (driver's side) of the floor is slanted -- how do you actually put the batteries in and level? Blocks of wood? My current battery is larger than standard, but I'm pretty sure even a standard battery would not fit turned sideways in there.

Resources:
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/fuses-guide-uses.html
https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437
http://www.usawire-cable.com/pdfs/nec%20ampacities.pdf

 

[chris snell]

The Blue Sea fuse block is rated for 100A max. You'll never draw that much from it, so choose a Maxi Fuse like 80A. There's a good formula out there from the boating people to help you choose cable gauge. I don't have the URL handy but the math isn't that tough and it's good to know that you've chosen properly rated components.


The biggest problem I see with Defender battery box "builds" is cabling complexity and poor connections. With that in mind, here's a run-down of what I do:

• Single battery only, high quality, large capacity. I love the Odyssey PC2150 and would never use anything else. I think the funniest battery setups are when ExPo types go with some fancy battery switcher and then cheap out with two shitty Optima batteries in there.
• High quality cabling: I use marine-grade wire and cable. You can get this at West Marine locally or from GenuineDealz on the interweb.
• High quality terminals: marine-grade Ancor brand terminals from West Marine or GenuineDealz
• Crimp, never solder. Buy the proper crimping tools for your terminals. For the bigger terminals for the main battery cable, you can borrow a big crimper. West Marine sometimes has them. Battery Systems (an Odyssey dealer) usually has one that you can use if you bring your cables and terminals.
• Heat shrink over the terminal-wire connection
• Bundle all cable pairs in expandable braided sleeving to keep things neat. Also protects the wire and makes it easier to route around the truck. Before sleeving, tape the wire pairs together every foot or so with electrical tape for an extra-clean and skinny look. To cut the sleeving cleanly, use a hot knife or wire.
• Always use insulated covers over your battery terminals to keep them from arcing if something comes loose.
• Label everything. I need to do a better job here. I'd like to find an office labeller with very skinny label tape.
• Choose the right-sized fuse for each component. Better to start low and step up if you blow it.
• Keep it simple. No dual batteries and switchers, no solar, etc.

 

[waveridin1959]

Im running a Die Hard Platinum (odessey make) group 34. Only time i've killed it was out at Core Banks in 90 degree heat. I thought about putting in two batterys with a controller for piece of mind.

 

[RBBailey]

I understand your one-battery solution, I think it may be where I'll go, but I'm still thinking about it.

I'm also exploring the idea using a solar generator for a house battery. So kind of a dual hybrid setup.

Also, I think it is very important to have a battery cut-off switch as close to the battery as possible. I know two people who have had battery caused fires in their Defenders, while off road. You would never expect the truck or the driver to have anything but top of the line stuff, yet both of them ended up with an arch caused in one case by another object in the battery box; in another case, caused by a wire that frayed on an edge of metal. Most importantly, both of them stopped the fire by frantically ripping out the seat, box cover, and having just enough time to physically pull the cable from the battery itself.

What if something happens to rattle loose (never happens in a Defender, right?) or what about even a small crash of some kind?

Your quest to simplify works towards keeping this type of thing from happening. But a physical disconnect at the flip of a switch is what I am looking to do as well.

 

[chris snell]

I built my own battery retainer and I'm quite confident that it's not coming loose. It's a homemade version of this:


https://shop.odysseybattery.com/p/hk-pc2150

 

[nas90tdi]

I run the same as Chris with the exception of having 2 batteries with an auto relay between. Buy Odyssey batteries and I promise they will last 2-1 over anything else you think you got a good deal on. Optimas have become the biggest piece of junk batteries money can buy.

No battery post connections! EVER. Crimp ring terminals on everything with the correct crimper and you will see tons of problems disappear.

I run the 2150's to, but the PC-1500's or similar will do most of what anyone needs to do if you don't want to spend that kind of money. I just like those for running a winch ect. And the 2150 Amp pulse will crank the hell out of your truck. Especially the TDI's with the high speed starter.

I also built my retainer. Batteries aren't going anywhere.

 

[El Pinchi]

I run the same as Chris with the exception of having 2 batteries with an auto relay between. Buy Odyssey batteries and I promise they will last 2-1 over anything else you think you got a good deal on. Optimas have become the biggest piece of junk batteries money can buy.

No battery post connections! EVER. Crimp ring terminals on everything with the correct crimper and you will see tons of problems disappear.

I run the 2150's to, but the PC-1500's or similar will do most of what anyone needs to do if you don't want to spend that kind of money. I just like those for running a winch ect. And the 2150 Amp pulse will crank the hell out of your truck. Especially the TDI's with the high speed starter.

I also built my retainer. Batteries aren't going anywhere.

can you post pics of your set up please? thanks!

 

[nas90tdi]

Sure, I will try to remember to grab some tomorrow.

 

[RBBailey]

I built my own battery retainer and I'm quite confident that it's not coming loose. It's a homemade version of this:

https://shop.odysseybattery.com/p/hk-pc2150

Right, fitting the one battery isn't a problem. I'd be able to figure out something like what you did. The issue I see is if I had two smaller batteries, turned lateral, they would need to be raised up, and pushed out from the outside wall, leveled, and then locked down. Maybe my seat box is slightly different than others?

 

[nas90tdi]

When you do the 2 smaller batteries you have to block them up because the drop in the seat box runs front to back.
I am cheating on my Tithonus because I am using one of my left side fuel locker for the second battery. I use the other side and just carry 10 gallons of diesel.


But, I have run 2 batteries under the seat on other trucks. I blocked the drop up and then made a bracket that went across the batteries with a piece of 1/2" thick rubber between them. So, basically one bracket held both. It will be seriously tight though. It's not real easy to get them in and out. Pretty sure I no longer have pictures of that setup.

 

[RBBailey]

Supply side problems. I swear half of the time I spend on any given project is just in trying to find the right parts.

I can't find 4 gauge lugs with the appropriate hole for either the Blue Sea or the battery side. NAPA, Advanced, Baxter, and West Marine -- I need to learn to call ahead. Any ideas? (Actually, West Marine did say they usually carry what they think I need.)

Also, what will I need to hook up the Blue Sea maxi fuse plug? I want to have the right parts to make that work when I get it.

Chris, could you post a pic of your current box? I want to see how that battery fits, and I want to see what it looks like to have the accessories wiring installed to the fuse box. I have an idea in my head that I need a real world pic to try to solidify.

 

[Napalm00]

Buy the west marine ones and drill them out for the stud size. The anchor ones are great, use them all the time.

 

[chris snell]

Right, fitting the one battery isn't a problem. I'd be able to figure out something like what you did. The issue I see is if I had two smaller batteries, turned lateral, they would need to be raised up, and pushed out from the outside wall, leveled, and then locked down. Maybe my seat box is slightly different than others?

You're missing the point: why do you need two smaller batteries or solar? I want to hear from you (or anyone else) about how a single Odyssey battery let them down.

You're engineering for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[DefendersNW]

I want to hear from you (or anyone else) about how a single Odyssey battery let them down.

4 days in camp with 100 degree days and the refrigerator constantly in use by a few people.

You're engineering for a problem that doesn't exist.

Mostly true - depending on how the truck is used.

As a daily driver and fast/light travel/offroad truck only one good battery is all that is needed. And for most people who don't use the truck every week, a kill switch is not a bad idea.

As a small motorhome - the draw to charge electronic devices, run camp lighting, refrigerator, etc... can drain a battery in ~3 days. So if one is inclined to stay put for 2+ days frequently and use the truck as a base camp then solar and a second battery makes sense to ensure that the vehicle operating system is isolated and always charged.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

Fwiw I usually buy my battery and winch cable terminals from my local welding supply house. I have them make my cables for me out of welding cable which is far more flexible and arguably a better conductor than normal battery cable and they crimp on the ends and shrinkwrap (the kind with adhesive inside) the ends for less than I can buy the materials online and make my own.

With batteries size typically equates to amp hour capacity. Use the biggest agm/absorbed glass mat battery that fits in the battery box. I prefer Deka brand (large battery manufacturer and actual manufacturer for many brands/resellers

http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/

) but admittedly haven't tried Odyssey.
YMMV

 

[jymmiejamz]

4 days in camp with 100 degree days and the refrigerator constantly in use by a few people.

That sounds like pretty atypical usage. Usually after a trip, camping or otherwise, I leave my fridge with whatever didn't get used for most, if not all, of the week after before I unload it. I park on the street and I'm generally lazy when it comes to things like this. After Rovers on the Rocks I left one container of yogurt in my fridge with it running all week. I've never had an issue with my battery voltage getting low enough to trip the low voltage cutoff or make the engine slow to crank.

 

[RBBailey]

You're missing the point: why do you need two smaller batteries or solar? I want to hear from you (or anyone else) about how a single Odyssey battery let them down.

You're engineering for a problem that doesn't exist.

That is exactly why I'm asking the question. If simply trying to get the batteries into the spot in a level and safe way is something that becomes complicated, it's just one more reason to stick with one battery.

Pros: A redundant system, designed properly, may be the thing that starts the truck to get you home. It's why redundancy is built into vehicles of all kinds.

Cons: Done badly, it easily becomes more expensive, complicated, and therefore causes more problems. Even done correctly, it is more complicated, and more expensive.

 

[RBBailey]

What I'm leaning towards is to continue what I've been doing for years now: To use one big deep cell battery, but to add a few things.

• First, I've heard nothing but good about Odyssey batteries, and if I can spring the cash, i'll go with what Chris has. I know a guy who has set up a CCA and battery life tester in his shop, he says Odyssey batteries are actually more powerful, and have a higher capacity than their labels suggest.
• Second, I'm going to make sure to properly charge my batteries often. I mentioned this in another thread; the idea that our alternators might actually be contributing to a shortened life on our deep cell batteries. Not really ruining them, but not charging them in the way they really need to be charged.
• Third, I'm going to have a physical cut off point.
• Fourth, I'm going to have some kind of solar generator/second battery to take on trips. Maybe even integrate a circuit to charge that battery from the vehicle's system when that battery is taken along.

For now, I'm going to set it up with the single deep cell battery I currently have. Once that's done, I could put two batteries in later, but I doubt that I will. It just seems like more work when I already have a good thing going, and I actually already have a small Goal Zero generator.

 

[waveridin1959]

You're missing the point: why do you need two smaller batteries or solar? I want to hear from you (or anyone else) about how a single Odyssey battery let them down.

I've certainly drained mine, but asking it to run an older style ARB in heat with the sun bearing down is a lot.. But it always kicks right back. I think this battery is going on 6 or more years at least now.

I'd prefer two for piece of mind. I plan on putting an odyssey in the second battery location in my wife's LR3 soon.

 

[Red90]

It is nice to have a dedicated starting battery. That way, no matter what you do, you can always get the engine going. When it is -30, you do not want to worry about having enough juice in the battery to get it going. You can be comfortable using the other battery to power things at camp. Sucks when you are three days walk from anyone in the middle of winter and you can't start the engine.

Solar makes sense if you camp for days without driving if you want to run an electric fridge. If you are driving every day, there is not a lot of use. When I lived in Australia, I used a 3 way fridge. It was much less hassle for base camping. A little propane bottle would last a week. No hassles with battery capacity or solar panels.