Stuck 200tdi Injector Pump

Tbaumer

Well-known member
The old injectors were pretty nasty, but only one fought me - I had to soak it in Kroil for an hour to get it to budge. Used an injector puller to avoid damage. Worst one & its port after cleaning in the last pics.

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Tbaumer

Well-known member
New retaining union screws & washers to attach the spill rail. Bummer part is that it is doing the same as before the new injectors :(.
High idle, no throttle control & a bit of a miss. Feel like I'm missing something that would be obvious to a real mechanic. What else, besides a gummed up IP that won't adjust from starting position, can cause these symptoms? Does this idle screw adjustment look okay? I know it's not just a visual adjustment, but I'm thinking of measuring the threads & backing it way out to see if it changes anything. I hear the turbo whine & think possibly waste gate lever stuck open? Should the actuator rod move at all by hand? It doesn't.

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Red90

Well-known member
It is just the pump being stuck. Probably time to get another pump.

Don't worry about the turbo. It does nothing until the engine is under heavy load.
 

Tbaumer

Well-known member
It is just the pump being stuck. Probably time to get another pump.
I was afraid of that. Everything seemed positive when I saw the intermittent small spurts of fuel in all four clear hoses appearing equal when I cranked the engine over. Assumed it was more fuel being fed causing the high RPMs. Thinking the speed of the fuel feed to the injectors...
I need some time to educate myself. Cost of a new IP isn't the intimidating part - it's the install & adjustments. Looks like I'm going to learn how to time an engine or trailer it to someone who knows how.
 

Red90

Well-known member
Changing out is easy. You might as well do the timing belt, tensioner and crank seals as the condition is not known. Once doing a timing belt, bolting in a new pump is just a few bolts. The belt work is a normal maintenance item and you just follow the manual.
 

1of40

Well-known member
Changing out is easy. You might as well do the timing belt, tensioner and crank seals as the condition is not known. Once doing a timing belt, bolting in a new pump is just a few bolts. The belt work is a normal maintenance item and you just follow the manual.
Red you recommend just bolting on a different pump? I was under the impression a dial gauge should be used to set the pump timing. No?
 

Red90

Well-known member
Red you recommend just bolting on a different pump? I was under the impression a dial gauge should be used to set the pump timing. No?
The dial gauge is nice, but there is nothing wrong with the pin method that is in the workshop manual. The dial gauge method is a bit of a PITA on a Defender 200TDI because the oil filter housing needs to come off.
 

Tbaumer

Well-known member
Already have new timing belt & tensioner installed by UD. I have the manual & scanned timing instructions. I'll have them memorized before I get the new IP. Any advise on best place to order from?
 

terryjm1

Well-known member
I had the same issue with mine after it sat for couple years when my project stalled. I gave up on the pump much quicker than you but it was a lot more obviously gummed up. Figured out it had vegetable oil in it. My injectors were clogged as well. I bought a rebuilt IP (200tdi in place of my 300tdi) new injector pipes, and new injectors. It runs perfectly now and no smoke except for a light puff at start up. All I did was the pin timing, no dial gauge.

This is the place I went with:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LANDROVER-DEFENDER-DISCOVERY-200-tdi-DIESEL-FUEL-INJECTION-PUMP/302819756853

It is a little less expensive and ask for the no VAT price if you go through their website. They refurb 200tdi and 300tdi injectors as well. They were very good to work with and shipped the rebuilt 200tdi pump as soon as my core 300tdi arrived at their facility. I’m planning to send them another one soon.
 
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Red90

Well-known member
Already have new timing belt & tensioner installed by UD. I have the manual & scanned timing instructions. I'll have them memorized before I get the new IP. Any advise on best place to order from?
Then you need a timing tool kit. This holds the timing belt pully in place while you change the pump.
 

terryjm1

Well-known member
Here is the timing tool kit I have. Cheap Chinese item, however. I used it once and worked fine.


Here is one less costly but ships from China:

 
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Tbaumer

Well-known member
Thanks for the help Red90 & terryjm1. Ordered the timing tool kit. The range of pricing for this IP is crazy! $553.92 plus shipping for refurbished. New from $876.00 plus shipping to $4,153.33 o_O (no joke). I also have a used IP from another 200tdi engine on a stand... Nah, I'll order new & send this one in for a refurbished one.

I swear I'm going to have two complete Land Rovers worth of parts before I get this back on the road!
 

terryjm1

Well-known member
Thanks for the help Red90 & terryjm1. Ordered the timing tool kit. The range of pricing for this IP is crazy! $553.92 plus shipping for refurbished. New from $876.00 plus shipping to $4,153.33 o_O (no joke). I also have a used IP from another 200tdi engine on a stand... Nah, I'll order new & send this one in for a refurbished one.

I swear I'm going to have two complete Land Rovers worth of parts before I get this back on the road!
If you go with Bob Beck be sure to contact them by email and get the no VAT price. It is less than $553.92.From memory, including the cost to ship mine to them I was all in for less than $600. When you ship it out be very clear when filling out the customs forms it is being sent for repair and return or they will hit you for import tax. Pack it tight, sealed in plastic, very well drained, and very secure in the smallest USPS flat rate box it will fit in. I am pretty sure it is their medium flat rate box.
 
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Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
FWIW now that you have bought the tool kit. As John said, it contains a lock for the injection pump pulley. It is the large round disc with a lip on it. First you screw the crank lock into the bottom of the bell housing wade pug hole. Turn the engine to tdc and it will lock. You remove the three bolt timing cover plate, undo the three 10mm head bolts, and bolt on the clamping ring. Then you can remove the nut on the end of the injection pump shaft and pull the pump only out, leaving the belt pulley engaged in the belt. This preserves cam belt timing and is the way the job is supposed to be done. Ie no need to open the front of the engine, drain coolant etc. Changing the pump this way takes about an hour.

If on the fence, Blue Ridge Diesel Injection Service here in Salem Va have done dozens for Robert Davis and I. They are a Bosch service center. Cost to rebuild using the latest low sulpher tolerant seals and o rings is around $600. Elton Wright there is point of contact, knows Tdi's, he drives an immaculate 200 tdi powered 109. This avoids the international shipping scenario and they are top notch and turn things quickly. You can find cheaper remans possibly but they were likely done in a sweat shop with who knows what quality rebuild kit and are only being retailed by the large company offering them on the internet.

FWIW, the last pump I took them was because it was leaking, turns out that pom Nigel had over tightened the tensioner and put too much tension
on the IP shaft and worn out the bushings in the case that the shaft rides in. Don't over tighten your belts boys.
 
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terryjm1

Well-known member
FWIW now that you have bought the tool kit. It contains a lock for the injection pump pulley. You remove the three bolt cover plate undo the three 10mm head bolts and bolt on the clamping ring. Then you can remove the nut on the end of the injection pump shaft and pull the pump only out, leaving the belt pulley engaged in the belt. This preserves cam belt timing and is the way the job is supposed to be done. Ie no need to open the front of the engine to remove pump. Changing the pump this way takes about an hour.
Very good advice and I was at about the same experience level with this project as you when I did it. I have taken on that job one time and it went very smooth. If you carefully follow Doug’s directions and or the ROM, you will be good to go. It made me more confident in my actions to keep looking at the ROM as I worked each step.
 

Tbaumer

Well-known member
Success!
I am still sending the stuck Injection pump in to get remanufactured & almost sent the "extra" one from the 200tdi on the engine stand in with it. Decided to remove & install it instead. Figured it would be good practice since I'm new at this. Followed the step by step directions in the manual (after watching a couple videos) to remove/install/set timing & for the first time since my engine upgrade... drum roll please...
It now idles with a gravely purr, clean exhaust & I can rev it up with the throttle!

IMG_1828.JPGIMG_1840.JPGIMG_1848.JPGIMG_1849.JPGIMG_1851.JPGIMG_1852.JPG
 

RBBailey

Well-known member
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I did not realize the pin should be greased. Mine was dry and clean when I had it out a while back.

Were you able to set the timing with a dial gauge? I’m wondering what the difference is between this pump and the 300Tdi version as I was under the impression that the timing can not be set with just the pin.

Good to hear that you got it running right!
 
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Tbaumer

Well-known member
Awesome, did you take it for a drive ?
Not yet, I didn't want to ruin that "I might not be in over my head after all" feeling.
Going to today. I need to double check EVERYTHING that I have had apart, isolate some wires & button up my fuse box - that I disassembled thinking I had some time on my hands while waiting for the IPs to be remanned.
 
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