Spy Shot Of Defender? Dec. 1

LRNAD90

Well-known member
We all (at least most of the 'purists' I guess we'd be called) hated the Disco3/LR3 when it came out. A rounded (or so we felt at the time) shape, Independent Suspension all around? Land Rover is dead we proclaimed, never will it have the same off road capabilities. Too many computers, it will leave anyone stranded that tries to venture off pavement..

Well, we all think of the Disco 3/Disco 4 in a different light now. It's proven itself very capable off road (if we are being honest, I'm sure it would leave a stock NAS 90 or 110 behind in many situations) and more reliable than most rovers that came before it..

Most of us here are owners of 'real' Defenders. Most of us are not going to be customers for a new Defender, no matter what it is.

Could Land Rover build a true competitor to the JL as the new Defender? Probably, but it would likely carry too high a price tag to actually sell in the same volumes.

My biggest concern is that Land Rover becomes profitable enough to get back to the Heritage projects and continue support for heritage vehicles myself.

The Marketplace loves what they have done with the brand, and Land Rover is making more money than ever before. Evoques and RRS are sales leaders. I think the Disco 5 is ugly as hell, but it time I may even warm up to it, who knows.

Whatever the 'New Defender' is, I will probably warm up to it enough to use as a family/everyday driver by the time early ones depreciate enough for me to be willing to spend any coin on it, just like I now feel about the Disco 3/4's..

None of us here are waiting for the new Defender to come out so we can sell our 'old' ones and get a new one, and Land Rover knows this..
 

Red90

Well-known member
Well, we all think of the Disco 3/Disco 4 in a different light now. It's proven itself very capable off road..

Umm. No. The Disco 3 and 4 or at best able to do moderate terrain and that is it. They are lovely on road but really lacking for any real off road ability.

That is not what is needed for the Defender but that is what we will get.
 

FlyersFan76

Well-known member

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copleymotorcars

Well-known member
the rear section of the roof there is completely fake. from the belt line up. i think there's nothing under there, and has the rear doof from a full hard top model to throw us off. i've said this before - 4 door power top convertible.

adam
 

NYC Defender

Active member
Most of us here are owners of 'real' Defenders. Most of us are not going to be customers for a new Defender, no matter what it is.

None of us here are waiting for the new Defender to come out so we can sell our 'old' ones and get a new one, and Land Rover knows this..
I for one CAN'T wait for the 2020 Defender to come out, as all it's going to do is probably drive up the price for older and REAL Defenders.

No matter how any one slices and dices the spy pictures so far seen online to me it looks like LR only took the name and slapped it on a Discovery kind of thing.

I have 2 car manufacturers who knew to NEVER mess around with their successful vehicles....
Jeep with the JL and Mercedes Benz with the G-class as even a non car person can tell it's a G wagon from the 70s to this year's model.

So I MUST say thank you to LR for driving up the future value of real D90/110 and creating the original Defender.
 

FlyersFan76

Well-known member
I for one CAN'T wait for the 2020 Defender to come out, as all it's going to do is probably drive up the price for older and REAL Defenders.

No matter how any one slices and dices the spy pictures so far seen online to me it looks like LR only took the name and slapped it on a Discovery kind of thing.

I have 2 car manufacturers who knew to NEVER mess around with their successful vehicles....
Jeep with the JL and Mercedes Benz with the G-class as even a non car person can tell it's a G wagon from the 70s to this year's model.

So I MUST say thank you to LR for driving up the future value of real D90/110 and creating the original Defender.

True but when MBUSA first started importing it they had a nice sub 80k starting price. They raised the price when the GL came out because they didn't want it to cannibalize GL sales.




At the car show the first year of import I over heard someone say, "it looks too much like a military vehicle." lol
 

FlyersFan76

Well-known member
If any real Defender owners have a new Defender this will be the bumper sticker of choice. Or something like it.


Might need a new section of the forums so that new defender owners don't post builds in the current builds section.
 

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RBBailey

Well-known member
Callsign: KF7KFZ
the rear section of the roof there is completely fake. from the belt line up. i think there's nothing under there, and has the rear doof from a full hard top model to throw us off. i've said this before - 4 door power top convertible.

adam
I'm not sure you're 100% right, but I'm positive you're right about that whole rear section being fake. The sides, the rear around the door, for sure, but possibly even the roof itself. Although what looks like twin skylights seems pretty permanent.

The windshield is way too slanted for them to call this an iconic Defender shape. Fix that, and the lower corners of the vehicle. Then you have a 21st Century Defender. Even if it seems they skipped a generation or two, while Jeep plodded on through every step with great success.
 

LRNAD90

Well-known member
Umm. No. The Disco 3 and 4 or at best able to do moderate terrain and that is it. They are lovely on road but really lacking for any real off road ability.

That is not what is needed for the Defender but that is what we will get.
I've seen stock (no cross axle diff locks) Defenders and first generation Discoveries stopped very easily by cross axle situations, and LR3's with electronic traction control crawl through the same section with wheels in the air.

Similar with extremely low traction surfaces (like slimy mud or ice)...

Do I think the same of a Defender with good limited slip or locking differentials, no, but stock for stock, yes..
 

Red90

Well-known member
Stock is not important. Stock Defenders also have the same traction control just not the old ones you have seen. The ones built at the same time as those Discos do.

What is important is what they can be made to do. Disco 3, 4 and 5s can never be made to do hard obstacles. They are mediocre.
 

rocky

Well-known member
There are a lot of foam sections added under the camouflage. Roof line has no gutters (no loss) and has the "corrugated " roof panel to strengthen the roof panels.
 

RBBailey

Well-known member
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Stock is not important. Stock Defenders also have the same traction control just not the old ones you have seen. The ones built at the same time as those Discos do.

What is important is what they can be made to do. Disco 3, 4 and 5s can never be made to do hard obstacles. They are mediocre.
I?ve never been worried about going over anything that can?t be done with good mods that also allow the vehicle to daily drive 99% of the time on road. If you build a truck that should really be trailered to the dirt, then you aren?t looking for anything new ? not even a factory Rubicon. One of the things I?ve always liked about Discos and Range Rovers is that they are very suited to both. The Defender was always a step further toward the dirt, but still realistic.
 

LRNAD90

Well-known member
Stock is not important. Stock Defenders also have the same traction control just not the old ones you have seen. The ones built at the same time as those Discos do.

What is important is what they can be made to do. Disco 3, 4 and 5s can never be made to do hard obstacles. They are mediocre.
We are getting off topic for this thread, but I'd argue stock is certainly relevant, particularly in the context of my original comments. And as much as it pains me to say it, I wouldn't be surprised if the new Defender will be more capable than the old if you compare two stock trucks.

Also relevant is what is available to us, and there are no Defenders *legally* available to us with factory traction control systems..

One you start comparing modified vehicles, all bets are off, its only up to the imagination, creativity and wallet size of the creator, so saying a Disco 3/4/5 could *never* be made to do hard obstacles is just short sighted. Would it cost a lot more, sure, but its not impossible...
 

Roverman2010

Well-known member
What is important is what they can be made to do. Disco 3, 4 and 5s can never be made to do hard obstacles. They are mediocre.
John there are some who will disagree with you on that. There is a trail at Barnwell mountain where Scarr is held. We took a class with Bill Burke. There is a section of a hill climb with some high ledges. Bill ran it first with his 90 took him 1 shunt to come up it. A volunteer in a 2017 LR4 and no off road in experience wanted to try it. Bill spotted him after a couple of stops cleared it. Yes he scrapped the underside most of the way up. But it got to the top.

A stock LR4 on factory road tyres. Sorry to go on but it surprised me. Not sure on your "hard obstacles" just saying.
 

Red90

Well-known member
I wheel with them all the time. I know what they can do. The traction control is good and makes them do well on some things and completely stops them on others. The inability to run proper tires and the horribly exposed body really stops them doing anything hard. I can guarantee I can lose them in half an hour on a trail or watch them destroy the trucks.

I won?t even start on the complexity and the poor reliability.
 

rover4x4

Well-known member
Bravo!

Back on point..

If this "Defender" shows up are there any folks considering getting one? It will be interesting to see how the aftermarket responds. If they depreciate as expected it could potentially make for a fun truck. I would have more fun thrashing a 10yo"Defender" in 2030 than my almost 40yo Land Rovers at that point
 

mgreenspan

Founding Member
I am considering one. I’m planning on getting out of the AF and getting an airline job within the year. Wife and kids want to live in a specific place, the UK. She is currently rocking a Ford Galaxy, but wants something smaller like the new Jimny. I know that’s really too small for her and 3 kids so this would be a great option since she hates the look of the D5 and Discovery Sport.
On top of that, I’d happily sell off my beater daily Toyota Cylon and my GX470 to have just one new car. If this thing has a diesel option stateside it could replace everything I’ve got short of the project IIa. My friend just bought a Tesla and it’s amazing. I end up driving in lots of brand new cars for rentals and absolutely would prefer to have something new that I want. I have wanted this since they spoke about it over a decade ago and have only been disappointed by everything they have shown. Im expecting it to be a modern new car. I’m OK with IFS/IRS. I’m OK with stylistic cues taken from the original Defender but at the flavor level of a la croix. I am not OK with big rims on anything that I own. There are other things that’ll ruin it for me, but the standard Gerry McGovern look is usually a huge turn off. 2020 will also see the introduction of the Gladiator with the diesel option. I’m gonna bet that the diesel Gladiator sale wipes the floor with the new Defender and McGovern can few vindicated in continuing to think there is no market for an off-road vehicle in the US.
 

Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
If number of dealerships is any indication, Jeep will mop the floor all over Europe, in addition to the US. Drive around continental Europe and count the number of dealerships you see for ea mark- I have and Rover looses that contest hugely. Not sure where/how Land Rover percieves their market to be.

I'm sure there are factors that arent occuring to us as to why one of the top selling luxury 4x4 brands in the world isnt/can't bring a utilitarian model to market for off road enthusiasts, commercial class, and military use . Perhaps they percieve their market to be above those fleet sale class of vehicles that are the company's heritage.

Arrogance ? I watch the the current disco comercials where the rear seats fold with the touch of a button and the truck moves down @ the touch of a button in the rear cargo space so a Jack Russel can make the jump into the truck and then moments later a Jeep commercial comes on where the salesman directs the potential buyer to the closest trail to try the vehicle out. One company gets it, the other courts the Neiman Marcus opera attending buyer.

Perhaps thats the difference of not having to answer to or have any sensitivity to stock price or shareholders.
 

mgreenspan

Founding Member
From my chair it kind of seems like arrogance.
Has to be the only explanation. 150K+ Wrangler sales in the US for the past 5 years. They have been missing out. I think their target is 100K Defenders worldwide per year.

Final year of the Defender was 20K. This obviously isn?t targeting previous Defender buyers. It?s going to be mass marketed. The trouble is they need the US to be successful. We Americans buy cars way to frequently and are necessary for those sales targets. The US bought 17.5MM vs UK, Germany, & France at 8.5MM. I honestly think they?re going to bring this in with too high a price tag for success in the US and too late in the game. People are still buying SUVs, trucks, and crossovers, but they?re coming in unestablished after years of Tacoma?s, 4Runners, FJs, Jeeps, and a years of the new small pickup wave.

When it comes down to it, it?s going to be hard for me to buy a new Defender that I?m only mildly excited about for $55k when a 2500 or 3500 series 4x4 quad cab pickup that I always cringe at the price tag of costs the same.

I’m not usually one to say I know I could do better than company X’s executive, but I 100% know I could do light years better than the choads at JLR. I hope you choads are reading this.


Also can anybody tell me how to stop the apostrophes from turning to question marks? I just switched to an iPhone from Samsung and the google isn’t helping me solve this one.
 
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