SD roll cage questions on a 90

WK2Burner

Well-known member
Looking for some info on cages for my 91, 90. I purchased a NAS style cage from SD but wanted to consider another option before I pull the trigger and start cutting. Also up for opinions from those that have installed any of these cages in the past. Thanks.

Here is what I have currently. L138 Cage. External only at windshield, and above door, then goes into hard top.
l138.png


What I am considering is the L108. Full external to rear, but no bulkhead removal bar

l108.png


L213, same as 108, but stated for a PUMA and no bulkhead.
l213.png


My questions are:
1. Does the external cages have driver/pass seatbelt mounts? Assuming they would have to be on the small internal piece that attaches to lower frame brace.
2. Which one would I get for my 90 with a bulkhead that I plan to remove? The one for a bulkhead or one without?
3. Will a bulkhead removal bar attach to the external cages?

If anyone has an interest in the 138 cage w/ padding, shoot me a pm. I may consider buying an external if there is interest in this one.
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
1. no
2 id go external non-puma, the puma one rear mounts are different are wont fit your loadspace without mods ( i dont think)
3. No unless you go with the bulkhead removal bar that only removes half the bulkhead as its independent of the cage and the mounts.


if you have a ribbed or series roof none of these will fit

double edit: Performance and protection can also make you a custom cage with whatever you want
 

WK2Burner

Well-known member
1. no
2 id go external non-puma, the puma one rear mounts are different are wont fit your loadspace without mods ( i dont think)
3. No unless you go with the bulkhead removal bar that only removes half the bulkhead as its independent of the cage and the mounts.


if you have a ribbed or series roof none of these will fit

double edit: Performance and protection can also make you a custom cage with whatever you want
Bummer. This is for safety first and mall crawler street cred second. I was really hoping for better seat belt mounting with the external cage. I do understand that they have been used with floor mounted seat belts for millions of miles, but the cage I currently have (L138) does require new seat belts, which is what I wanted. Maybe I'll stick with what I have.

Is that a P&P cage? I assume it is by the watermark but looks exactly like the SD.
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
yup p&p in the pic ...you can tell by the zinc hardware


I think the L138 give the least protection here. the dose not cover the rear ? with p&p you can get cross bars as well
 

Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
Francis,
The internal bar behind the seats definitely tightens things up after you have cut out the bulkhead. You cant tell the difference when you close a door. it bolts through the capping and will not connect to an external only cage.

The one in our trail truck was actually out of a factory 90 so its a LR part that you can buy if you decide to go with a different cage. We also have the under tub bar fitted that is part of your current cage, ours was out of a NAS 90. if memory is correct our lower seatbelt mounts bolt through one bolt hole that connects the under tub bar and the tub stiffener bar. Are you looking for stronger lower or upper belt mounts ?
 
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WK2Burner

Well-known member
Francis,
I the internal bar behind the seats definitely tightens things up after you have cut out the bulkhead. We removed the bulkhead completely. The one in our trail truck was actually out of a factory 90 so its a LR part that you can buy if you decide to go with a different cage. We also have the under tub bar fitted that is part of your current cage. if memory is correct our lower seatbelt mounts bolt through one bolt hole that connects the under tub bar and the tub stiffener bar.
Thanks, that was my concern, I was not sure with the external cage that you could use a bulkhead removal bar or that it would even tie together. I thought it would interfere with the cage, which was why i considered a non bulkhead version, but was thinking too much into it. Bill Shofield is working on one with the external cage, so I'll probably drop in on him to see what he is doing. I think with what Napalm said and knowing I can do another internal setup with the external cage, I may be putting mine up for sale. I will be looking into P&P also.
 

WK2Burner

Well-known member
took some pics of Angus's truck (94 NAS) which is where I got my assumption that the seat belt mounts were all on the bar behind the seats. I guess I could modify the external cage interior tub mount to accept the seatbelt. I'll need to see the finished product to see if it's possible. maybe looking too much into it.

20190330_123554.jpg
 

rocky

Well-known member
Always assumed that with ribbed roofs, the SD cage that only covers the A and B pillar will fit
 

WK2Burner

Well-known member
So the P&P kit seems to be quite nice, and can include a bulkhead bar, but does not include any seat belt mounts. I am not clear if the bulkhead bar mounts to the cage at all, but likely it does not and is similar to the setup that UD had discussed. Shipping is brutal though at 700gbp or 350gbp to JFK (but a broker is needed), and about 12 months wait. I may just go the SD route if I can find one in the states and add the bulkhead bar separately. Likely will need to just add seat belt mounts to whatever cage I can get.
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
I just placed an order with them two weeks ago and they were 6 weeks out. They had just done 4 shipments to just the bay area...bonkers .


Have you thought about harnesses instead of belts ? I have just lap belts in my truck right now , when I move to the cage I'll out shoulder belts in.

A local guy here has four point harnesses on his rear forward facing seats for his kids..they are quite nice
 

WK2Burner

Well-known member
I just placed an order with them two weeks ago and they were 6 weeks out. They had just done 4 shipments to just the bay area...bonkers .


Have you thought about harnesses instead of belts ? I have just lap belts in my truck right now , when I move to the cage I'll out shoulder belts in.

A local guy here has four point harnesses on his rear forward facing seats for his kids..they are quite nice
I may be the cause to the additional time, I asked for matte finish over gloss. How glossy is the factory finish? I'm not into the harnesses, as I am familiar with them in some of my past track vehicles, but I wanted this more wife/passenger friendly. The floor mounts are used by most but I just cant justify having a cage but not using it for restraints.

The price on the P&P is right on par with SD, but includes "rubber sealing pads for roll cages" and a bulkhead removal bar. I don't know what duties and taxes would be at the airport either, but will figure that into it i go that route.
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
Oh I'm not knocking your decision to go for SD specifically if you want the seat belt brackets I totally understand.

I'm actually getting my cage done in semi-gloss as well I didn't want the gloss.

local guy here who put the harnesses in for his rear kids is very safety focused, since it's not their daily driver I think that's how he justified using them. Certainly are not wife's Sunday blouse friendly.
 

WK2Burner

Well-known member
I think i'm at the bottom of my unnecessarily over-complicated problem . None of the external cages support the upper seat belt mounts, so that's just going to be remedied by me adding the bracket to the bar behind the seat. The lower mounts look like they attach to the bulkhead bar as per UD, and if not could be strengthened with plates under the seatbox area.

SD L108 is bulkhead mount, so this will not be worthwhile
SD L213 is for PUMA, and has provisions for the OEM LR Bulkhead bar, so this is the option

P&P has same setup as SD, but their PUMA cage has the option of their bulkhead bar, for an extra 100gbp, but cannot use the OEM bar

Either way the PUMA option is the answer for me. Mainly due to me wanting to remove the bulkhead.
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
will the puma cage fit the rest of your truck ? there are some internal body/mount differences, sounds like you are on the right path tho
 

WK2Burner

Well-known member
Good question, neither P&P or SD stated that as a consideration when I told them I have a 91. I guess it would only matter where it ties to the frame. I'll have to look into that.
 

Napalm00

Well-known member
it matters actually where the inner body bulkhead area and the rear of the bed near the internal brake light covers are. The puma and early bodies are different there, and the mounts/sandwich plates are different

The puma and later loadspace is stepped differently
 
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