School me on outdoor fire tables (Natural Gas) - getting the runaround...

hillstrubl

Founding Member
Background - I've been doing a ton of renovations at my house and one of the things we did was install a stamped concrete patio.
Under the patio was a PCV conduit buried for a natural gas line going to this fire table I bought. It was converted pre-purchase (with the included kit) to Natural gas from the default propane along with my weber grill that I converted (new orifices, adjust air baffles, new NG regulator).

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The main 3/4" gas line was run by a plumber and splits to serve both the grill and the table, here's where I'm confused. The grill came with a regulator (pic above), the table came with a natural gas conversion kit but (I'm told but the plumber) no regulator. Would this manifold (pic below of table) also serve as the regulator? The burner documentation here (pg 23-25) seems to infer that there is no (additional) regulator needed but its really unclear... I'm calling the retailer on Tues but wanted to see what the group thought in the meantime.

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MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
Background - I've been doing a ton of renovations at my house and one of the things we did was install a stamped concrete patio.
Under the patio was a PCV conduit buried for a natural gas line going to this fire table I bought. It was converted pre-purchase (with the included kit) to Natural gas from the default propane along with my weber grill that I converted (new orifices, adjust air baffles, new NG regulator).

View attachment 20926

The main 3/4" gas line was run by a plumber and splits to serve both the grill and the table, here's where I'm confused. The grill came with a regulator (pic above), the table came with a natural gas conversion kit but (I'm told but the plumber) no regulator. Would this manifold (pic below of table) also serve as the regulator? The burner documentation here (pg 23-25) seems to infer that there is no (additional) regulator needed but its really unclear... I'm calling the retailer on Tues but wanted to see what the group thought in the meantime.

View attachment 20927
Yes. It is. Page 17 of your original manual link
 

Tbaumer

Technical Excellence Contributor
With an open air burner, I'm not so sure you need one, as long as the natural gas supply pressure is within the 3.5" WC-10.5" WC specified. Low pressure gas supplied to most residential homes will be in this range already. You have a control knob to adjust the flame height after igniting it on low. Most natural gas furnaces/heaters have adjustable settings in the gas valve to dial in the burner manifold pressure & after that - it simply opens or closes on demand. The flame adjustment knob will do this same thing. The reason propane gas needs a regulator is that the gas pressure in a tank/cylinder is unknown, so the regulator maintains a safe/adequate working pressure. Your homes natural gas meter is already doing this. Your Weber grill is designed to use lower gas pressure than the normal pressure supplied to homes - hence the regulator. While I am confident in my answer, still check with the fire table supplier. Your plumber not knowing this, makes me nervous.
 

rocky

Well-known member

The insurance agent in me suggests you check your house insurance is paid before you do!

Seriously, I would check the owners manual and with your local plumbing and gas inspector. The plumber probably pulled a permit. Or should have…..
 

hillstrubl

Founding Member
With an open air burner, I'm not so sure you need one, as long as the natural gas supply pressure is within the 3.5" WC-10.5" WC specified. Low pressure gas supplied to most residential homes will be in this range already. You have a control knob to adjust the flame height after igniting it on low. Most natural gas furnaces/heaters have adjustable settings in the gas valve to dial in the burner manifold pressure & after that - it simply opens or closes on demand. The flame adjustment knob will do this same thing. The reason propane gas needs a regulator is that the gas pressure in a tank/cylinder is unknown, so the regulator maintains a safe/adequate working pressure. Your homes natural gas meter is already doing this. Your Weber grill is designed to use lower gas pressure than the normal pressure supplied to homes - hence the regulator. While I am confident in my answer, still check with the fire table supplier. Your plumber not knowing this, makes me nervous.
The initial "survey" was done with my contractor (and his sub-contracted plumber), then the install was done while I was not home (due to scheduling). He's coming by today to discuss this in person as I need him to make a few other aesthetic changes, etc. Overall the project was great to this point, I'm not happy with this piece of it due to both the delays and the ambiguity.
 

hillstrubl

Founding Member
Yes. It is. Page 17 of your original manual link
"Regulator hose connection" I saw too, but technically that's on the "self-contained propane" section where the regulator is usually installed on the end of the hose.
With an open air burner, I'm not so sure you need one, as long as the natural gas supply pressure is within the 3.5" WC-10.5" WC specified.
That's what I thought too, will call today and report back.
Your plumber not knowing this, makes me nervous.
I know... but its possible he (the plumber) was trying to upsell me something I didn't need?
Just lite it!
That's the plan after a few phone calls
 

hillstrubl

Founding Member
New problem, plumber installed the gas source (female flared) too close to the "top" of the enclosure, if plumbed in this way, the cover won't fit. Besides getting them to come back and redo this work (was 6 weeks to get it installed in the first place) is not ideal... A 90 degree female to male flared elbow (flared on both sides) would fix this even easier. Does anybody know of a source for this without having to buy a 5 pack (which I'm probably going to end up doing)?


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Napalm00

Technical Excellence Contributor
any hydraulic shop that makes hoses will have it on hand, i also wouldnt use a swivel elbow, use a solid one


EDIT: forgot you were near philly my hometown.. any of the Colliflower shops will have it
 
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