Land Rover TDV6 Engine Crud

[brdhmltn]

Picked up a new to me 2017 TDV6 Range Rover Sport. It's a CPO vehicle, so dealer is doing the hard stuff. I've only had the truck a week or so. I figured there would be some teething problems, some reason it was traded in, and sure enough I got an engine code for a throttle actuator.

The pic inline is of the throttle assy old vs a new one. Look at all that crud! It is a still snap of the tech video so ignore the white play triangle.

I'm concerned about the gunking. They are cleaning everything as much as possible, checking end to end. Dealer thinks it was run on farm diesel possibly. Gotta give my local dealer credit as I did not buy this from them and they are fixing (IMO) another dealer's poor maintenance and inspection. I have done some research and see lots of the Euro guys running a 200:1 mix of 2 stroke JASO FC compliant oil in the fuel on earlier tdv6 models. Not much info on the newer models as they are still under warranty. I can get JASO FD (higher detergent) locally easy. JASO description - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASO_M345

Dealership did say there is an additive LR recommends in the USA as our diesel is a bit different. I am going to ask them about the ratings on it when I pick the vehicle up. Also our diesel in the south is a different formula than further north, where the car was owned, so I'm hopeful this will clean up the more I drive it down here. Anyone know what the specs are on the LR additive? Thoughts on doing the Euro thing?

I'm not planning on keeping it after CPO. I'll trade it 6 months before that's up, so I'll have this one a couple of years max. Wanted to try a modern diesel and modern LR for a while.

 

[Napalm00]

It wasn't run on farm diesel it was just run at low speed and in traffic for extended periods of time. Farm diesel and regular diesel are exactly the same.

The only way to avoid this type of buildup is to run water injection or remove the emissions equipment.

 

[Adam]

I have a 2017 TD6 diesel and I love it. Still low miles - around 30k or so, w/another year on factory warranty. So far, it's been great. I really enjoy the smooth ride and great fuel economy. 30mpg is not unheard of.

 

[JimC]

Dealer thinks it was run on farm diesel possibly.

Techs saying cockamamie crap like this is one reason I hate random dealer people touching my trucks. This is so random and ill-informed as to be little more than a conspiracy theory.

 

[brdhmltn]

I have a 2017 TD6 diesel and I love it. Still low miles - around 30k or so, w/another year on factory warranty. So far, it's been great. I really enjoy the smooth ride and great fuel economy. 30mpg is not unheard of.

I got 28 on a couple hundred mile drive home with all this gunk in the engine. Vehicle has just over 50k miles. I don't like the auto start/stop. Not very smooth at that.

 

[mgreenspan]

I’ll be the naysayer with regards to diesel. I love old diesel engines. But I get 20+ from the 4.7 V8 in the GX. If it’s flat it’ll show 24-25 mpg on the highway. Throw in city and it’s dropped down significantly. Hell, I got close to 20 mpg regularly when my Disco 1 was stock with street/highway tires. Neither V8s develop gunk or not properly work when at idle or slow speed in city driving. Is a modern diesel really worth it for just ~10 mpg more?

 

[brdhmltn]

I am just a diesel fan... they work with the things I do and in the area I live. I don't presume anyone's vehicle/engine to be better or worse. Spending this kind of money on a vehicle, everyone should have confidence it will work and will last. I didn't have any experience with something truely modern and this opportunity came up...

 

[blueboy]

Dealer thinks it was run on farm diesel possibly.

Not sure if he actually knows yet maybe he is referring to non-taxed diesel fuel that farmers and off road construction equipment can use. In the past and possibly in some areas still it has a higher sulfur content. In my area which is rural farm area it is now all ULSD just dyed red to denote non-taxed fuel.

 

[acheck]

+1 on "farm diesel" nonsense. There literally is no such thing.

This type of carbon buildup is common on all types of modern engines, gas and diesel, due to ultra aggressive emissions/PCV systems. diesels are maybe a touch worse because of EGR.

that being said, I love all diesels - new and old. My daily is a 2017 BMW 328d which is a 2.0L four cylinder diesel making 180hp/280tq. My 10,000 mile average is 39mpg. If i baby it for a whole tank (which is arduous, 600 miles) it will return 43 average. I've heard that deleted and tuned, 50+ is well achieveable.

 

[Adam]

Update - On very flat ground, nursing the throttle - I was able to get 40mpg. I consider this to have been hypermiling and not representative of regular driving, but great none the less!

 

[LR Max]

LOL farm diesel. The newest farm tractors and equipment have the same emission equipment on them as these cars (DOCs, DPFs, SCR, EGR, DEF, throttle/exhaust flaps, etc). All the fuel is the same, just the tax is different.

Nah man. This crap looks like EGR crud. As mentioned before, lots of city driving and never getting her hot and out on the highway. Just sucking in sooty exhaust back into the intake.

Fuel additive won't do anything for this. Also DO NOT throw whatever old fuel additive in modern diesels. But a good additive added every 3-5k is a good idea. Use whatever LR specifies (check owners manual!). 2 stroke oil in your diesel, LOL good luck with that. Get you some proper diesel additive for modern high pressure common rail fuel systems. Modern diesels require fresh, clean diesel fuel. I've run into those not running good, clean diesel fuel. Cliff notes: It is a bad time.

As for this, I'd suggest you see what they did to clean out most of this crap because its kinda a manual process. Not fun but part of it. I think there is some EGR cleaner out there but I haven't used it. We've typically used isopropyl alcohol to clean out EGR pieces. If you do clean out EGR pieces, WEAR A MASK AND EYE PROTECTANT. This crap IS NOT healthy for you.

If it makes you feel better, I had to clean EGR crud out of my 1994 4runner with a gas V6 engine. I did try brake cleaner vs. isopropyl, the alcohol is WAY better than brake cleaner, surprisingly.

Speaking of these newer diesel, I am reading about replacing the fuel filter every 12-18 months. Ya'll hearing that? I'm not too worried, looks like it isn't too bad to replace and the filters are semi-reasonably priced. Looks like between $50-150USD (depending on brand and where you get it, so about the same as other modern diesels, really).

In a few years I'm going to be looking at diesel D5s.

 

[blueboy]

LOL farm diesel. The newest farm tractors and equipment have the same emission equipment on them as these cars (DOCs, DPFs, SCR, EGR, DEF, throttle/exhaust flaps, etc). All the fuel is the same, just the tax is different.

Very true for NEW farm tractors yet there are many 30+ old ones out there. Mine is 15 yrs old and has none of the items you mention. Totally agree this crud not formed by high sulfur diesel fuel yet not all diesel fuel is the same. At least in my area. ULSD is common however there is other fuel sold for older farm equipment.
On a different but similar note, Landie Rover specifically said in the owners manual of our 2005 110 in Brazil not to use bio diesel.

 

[LR Max]

Very true for NEW farm tractors yet there are many 30+ old ones out there. Mine is 15 yrs old and has none of the items you mention. Totally agree this crud not formed by high sulfur diesel fuel yet not all diesel fuel is the same. At least in my area. ULSD is common however there is other fuel sold for older farm equipment.
On a different but similar note, Landie Rover specifically said in the owners manual of our 2005 110 in Brazil not to use bio diesel.

Interesting they are selling "other" fuel. Its all been pretty much ULSD since 2014. The issue with high sulfur fuel, it clogs up the emission control equipment. So unless its #2 fuel oil, there is something weird going on. I know the Amish tried to get breaks from the EPA but the EPA don't give slack to no one. Off highway diesel is just color dyed and has no road tax associated with it.

I forget is old mechanically injected diesels can handle #2 or not.

But pretty much EPA mandate that all ULSD *should* be the same. Now if its contaminated or has algae or water in it, etc. Then yeah that is when things get fun. But those would typically affect the fuel system. The secondary fuel market, selling used summer or winter weight out of the north that have issues. The big truck stops don't have issues with bad fuel, I assume they all have good filtration and get clean, fresh diesel fuel.

On Biodiesel, it has been a challenge to get biodiesel to work with high pressure common rail. I know Cummins has figured out how to get B20 in their engines and other manufacturers are reluctantly certifying for B20, even though there are concerns. Biodiesel has issues when under high compression, and modern common rails are at 25000 psi (oh yeah, do not "crack" an injector on a common rail, it is extra bad time) and biodiesel does not play well with high pressure. Industry standard is B10 so all diesel engines in the US have to at least conform to that.

The days of "let the diesel engine sit there and idle all day, slobbering all over itself" are over. While they aren't as simple, they sure are powerful.

 

[blueboy]

So unless its #2 fuel oil, there is something weird going on.

Yep, you nailed it. Here in PA #2 heating oil still has 500 ppm of sulfur. And is less expensive especially on large purchases. It will change to 15 ppm Feb 2021. And then all fuel will be basically ULSD with only taxes due being the difference.

 

[evilfij]

Why are they getting rid of my high sulfer heating oil. That sucks.

 

[LR Max]

Emissions. Also technology is moving away from requiring high sulfur fuel. So its becoming more and more obsolete.

 

[rocky]

Nothing like short distance driving to clog up an engine’s pcv and EGR systems. Made a commitment to driving wife’s turbo gasser on long journeys whenever possible. It typically does constant short trips. I learned my lesson from her last one that clogged up by 70k.

 

[blueboy]

It typically does constant short trips.

How many miles do you consider short trips?

 

[rocky]

Her’s are typically max 5 miles. We did a run in august to SC which hopefully cleaned up it’s arteries. That’s a 950 mile all in a day each way drive

 

[blueboy]

Her’s are typically max 5 miles. We did a run in august to SC which hopefully cleaned up it’s arteries. That’s a 950 mile all in a day each way drive

Thanks. Mine are short trips as well yet majority of 8 miles is up to local ski area so some stress added to the engine. And always try to get the Italian Tuneup as often as possible with a highway blast to Pittsburgh on the Turnpike.