Help! Advanced or Retarded

A

aeo

Well-known member
So, messed with the timing some more because I didn't think I had advanced it enough yesterday. This AM I believe I over advanced it because it wouldn't turn over and now I think it's retarded.

I've been using the timing pin in the kit and not drill bits.

Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/oZuisyj6sX0
 
A

aeo

Well-known member
I really need help with this. I'm supposed to leave on our trip tomorrow and I think I've made a mess of my timing.
 
nas90tdi

nas90tdi

Well-known member
Stupid question, but are you 100% percent certain you haven't idled it down too low? Possibly your throttle cable was holding idle instead of the idle screw and you inadvertently rolled it in a bit? I may be wrong, but it just sounds like a super low idle speed.
 
A

aeo

Well-known member
nas90tdi said:
Stupid question, but are you 100% percent certain you haven't idled it down too low? Possibly your throttle cable was holding idle instead of the idle screw and you inadvertently rolled it in a bit? I may be wrong, but it just sounds like a super low idle speed.
Click to expand...

There are no stupid questions. I didn't touch anything but the IP. I'm assuming that could effect idle as well.

Yesterday I turned it clockwise and didn't notice anything different driving a bit- EGT, boost, or feel.

Today I turned it clockwise more and then it wouldn't start. So I backed it off and now I've got this. I moved it across the parking lot and it is big puffs of black smoke under load and some stumbling at idle. I haven't driven it far enough to warm up the motor so all of this is while it is cold.
 
nas90tdi

nas90tdi

Well-known member
Yes, IP timing could affect idle, you are right about that. Just with the short video is sounded like it was not settling into a proper idle speed. Which made me wonder about the idle adjustment.
But, the excess black smoke makes me think think it wouldn't be the idle adjustment unless it was loading up at low idle then blowing itself out. Do you feel like you have it back to it's original location? I am suspecting not if its behavior has changed.

This is Robert Davis territory unfortunately. But, I think they are off playing somewhere this weekend.
 
A

aeo

Well-known member
I checked the throttle cable, and I think you were on to something. I created some more tension on the cable at idle and it made a significant difference in idle. So I took out a bit of slack in the cable.

I also think I got the timing back to where it was, or pretty close. There is some smoke at cold start but it sounds more normal. She's a little louder than she was before I started messing with it but she was running really quiet before I started this. Like have a conversation and listen to the radio quiet.
 
nas90tdi

nas90tdi

Well-known member
If it is louder, it is probably advanced slightly from where it was. Advanced= a bit more clatter usually. As long at it is not a lot of clatter, it is fine. Most of these engines all sound slightly different from one other anyway.

Do you have an EGT gauge? It's almost mandatory if you are going to tune on your engine much.
A little smoke at start up is perfectly normal. Nothing to be concerned about.

Your idle adjustment bolt is under the back. It is a pretty basic bolt against the throttle plate set up. Just pushes against the throttle plate.You are looking for around 750-800 rpm if you have a tach.
 
A

aeo

Well-known member
It was more smoke than she usually has. I think it's now slightly advanced but running smoother. Louder, but not shaking or super clackity. Smoke is almost gone. Just the usual puffs at start up and load.

Ran it up a decent hill here and it pulled well. No trailer this evening, which is where I noticed the loss of power before. EGT is still running a bit higher on hills, 800-1200, I'm beginning to think that's user error.
 
nas90tdi

nas90tdi

Well-known member
Yes, they all do that to some degree or another. It's just the nature of the mechanical diesel engines.

Good luck and I hope your trip goes off without a hitch.
 
nas90tdi

nas90tdi

Well-known member
Actually a long hard hill in 5th, that's not that shocking to see EGT's in that range. 1200 is still a safe temp. That is about the max I will go, but I know a lot of people push them a little further all the time. I won't because I have no need to, so why risk it.

Let us know how it goes. Hopefully smooth and easy.
 
A

aeo

Well-known member
nas90tdi said:
Actually a long hard hill in 5th, that's not that shocking to see EGT's in that range. 1200 is still a safe temp. That is about the max I will go, but I know a lot of people push them a little further all the time. I won't because I have no need to, so why risk it.

Let us know how it goes. Hopefully smooth and easy.
Click to expand...

I've been ok with thoe EGTs in that case, but this wasn't a long, hard hill in 5th. It was more like a shorter oderate hill in 3rd.
 
javelinadave

javelinadave

Administrator
Staff member
I would re-time it with a pin or a dial gauge and start from zero. If you want to be 100% sure pull off the timing cover and check the "tick marks" too.
 
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nas90tdi

nas90tdi

Well-known member
Yep, start over. 3rd gear EGT's that high are a totally different matter. Something is amiss here.
 
A

aeo

Well-known member
She has no real power in 5th either. I've been driving her all day and she's ok for around town red light to red light driving but nothing above about 45-50 mph and the EGTs are hitting 800-900 before the boost hits 10 psi. Coolant and oil temp are normal ranges so that's good.

I was told to check for an exhaust blockage too. That maybe something is amiss with the actual exhaust and that is what was causing the original loss of power, higher EGT. Went to remove the muffler and see what happens and the muffler is welded in place.

Going to order a dial gauge and see if I can't get it timed correctly. Scared to remove the front cover and actually look at the timing belt. My kid is going to be in college by the time I get this truck figured out and he just graduated kindergarten.
 
RBBailey

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Wait...

  1. So, what caused you to try to do the timing in the first place?
  2. If you think you got the pins in correctly, even if they are a little off, I would think you would have same symptoms in same RPM range, on flat ground, no matter what gear you are in.
  3. If you have a new timing belt, or if it is several years old, why wouldn't this be a situation where the belt has jumped a tooth? You need to take the timing cover off.
  4. Do you have a boost gauge? What if your turbo is starting to go, and once the EGTs get to a certain height, the turbo begins to show its weakness? Timing might not be the issue.
  5. What if there is an issue with the fuel pump, not timing?

One way or another. You should be able to verify timing (I think) by setting a pin in the bell housing, then finding the slot open at the front cover/fuel pump. Look at the video I posted above.

I bought my truck 3 years ago. I drove it for 9 months. Then it went into the shop. It has been in the shop for two years as of the end of this month. My son is finishing his first year of high school..... I had thought I could get by on a year without the truck, it turned into two years, and right after I started the project, I sold the truck that I should have kept and actually used while the project was going.

In other words, in the past two years I've had the Defender, but have not had the Defender, I've watched my son go from the kid who wants to go camping to the kid who might like to go camping if he has the time, and all the while I could have kept the Disco, but I was stupid and sold it, and now I see it on trips with the new owner on Facebook every other weekend.

In the mean time, I've been without a bumper for two months because Rovers North can't figure out how to email me back about the new one I bought, but can't fit, the new Mantec tire carrier is flawed, can't be used without modification, and I've been up till midnight every night for the past three months working from home, without pay, missing my kids' band concerts and track meets, and not getting more than an hour in those three months to spend on working on the truck.... so.... yeah..... I feel your pain.

I've heard of people who managed to get their trucks running before their kids grew up, so I know it can be done, and you've got an early start!

In the end, it doesn't seem like you've got a terrible issue here, it really could just be a timing issue. You'll get it sorted soon enough.
 
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