UnfrozenCaveman
Well-known member
hah! 
That's what I like...a little humor with my coffee
That's what I like...a little humor with my coffee
GM 292 Straight 6 - Yet another conversion
- Thread starter RDavisinVA
- Start date
RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
Left early this morning and picked up Mark Garrenton.
G and I drove from Tidewater up to Sandston, VA and picked up a good running GM/Chevy 292 that the owner did a lot of work to.
Once back, took measurements of the engine with adapter and the engine bay of a 110 with a short belhousing lT77.
The 110 engine bay is 36" to the back opening of the 2.5 N/A radiator shroud.
Total engine length was 34 3/8" measured from the rear face of the adapter where it meets the transmission to the crank pulley.
The engine will fit with enough room for a mechanical or electric puller fan.
Stay tuned.
.
G and I drove from Tidewater up to Sandston, VA and picked up a good running GM/Chevy 292 that the owner did a lot of work to.
Once back, took measurements of the engine with adapter and the engine bay of a 110 with a short belhousing lT77.
The 110 engine bay is 36" to the back opening of the 2.5 N/A radiator shroud.
Total engine length was 34 3/8" measured from the rear face of the adapter where it meets the transmission to the crank pulley.
The engine will fit with enough room for a mechanical or electric puller fan.
Stay tuned.
.
Attachments
RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
Removed the original pilot bushing.
Then was able to setup the flywheel and pilot bushing for the R380 Stumpy.
These parts were in our stock and the same we used years ago on the 4 cylinder Series IIA III conversions.
We'll need to sand the surface rust off the clutch driven plate surface as this was surfaced about 12 years ago.
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Then was able to setup the flywheel and pilot bushing for the R380 Stumpy.
These parts were in our stock and the same we used years ago on the 4 cylinder Series IIA III conversions.
We'll need to sand the surface rust off the clutch driven plate surface as this was surfaced about 12 years ago.
.
Attachments
RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
I think with throttle body EFI w'll add reliability.
Next step is to make the mounting brackets for the alternator, PS pump, and AC compressor.
Alternator will be the standard Delco unit on the production kits, but since we use a 3000W inverter for appliances we are going to install a high output alternator from a Ford Taurus SHO.
AC compressor will be Sanden.
Production kits will also use the standard Saginaw PS pump, but the prototype will use the Mercedes PS pump because we have it on hand and want to get a working example up and running.
All the ancillaries will match the bullet proof reliability that this conversion will offer.
The overall design goal is for the conversion to be a bolt in weekend install.
Without any cutting or welding, just a non-intrusive drop in that will preserve the existing motor mounts, tunnel, floors, bulkhead, driveshafts that will all remain just as they left the factory.
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In older days folks tried this in series vehicles. The finished project too often looked butchered. When I put A Vortec 4.3 into my IIA I installed a D90 front panel to add room up front for a larger radiator and a/c condenser. The 90/110/Defenders do allow for more flexibility as Robert has shown.
Woah. Thats a whole 100 miles from your place. Did you bring Mark along to share the driving time or do all of the work loading it ?
RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
G needed to refresh his instigator skills.
jafir
Founding Member
So this should work with LT77 floors, tunnel, and seatbox, is that the plan?
RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
Yes.
Bolts right up to any short belhousing 4 cylinder Land Rover Transmission in a weekend.
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What on Earth for, Robert? That thing looks heavy as hell and the gas mileage can't be great.
Reliability, parts availability, excellent low end torque, great highway performance, mileage comparable to anything under a LR bonnet, easy to work on and great accessibility.
RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
I drove a 300TDI for 7 years as a daily driver and a 200TDI for over a year, and threw the towel in.
Face it... a TDI will barely keep up with modern traffic once you finally get up to speed.
They are smelly, noisy, quirky, and can't tow up hill - in fact to keep up with 70-75 MPH traffic, your foot is close to or remains to the floor.
On a steep upgrade you slow down.
Ordinary drivers will act aggressive because they don't want to be smoked-out when you step on it.
Pulling out and having to move over 3 or 4 lanes to make an exit is nerve racking because of the extremely slow acceleration.
They have mechanical issues, blow head gaskets, leak lots of oil, and have little domestic off-the-shelf parts support.
Load the vehicle up with any weight and the engine will struggle.
They run poorly at high altitudes and are just not that economical.
In many parts of Europe illegal to drive.
I talk to a lot of people who will not drive a diesel and/or have a spouse who won't ride with them.
All the above is why the LS conversions are so popular, but they are also very very very expense and require irreversible modifications.
The GM/Chevy inline six is smooth, reliable, powerful, and will bolt in.
The install can be accomplished in a weekend and is non-intrusive (can be removed and a different engine installed).
There is also domestic and in many foreign countries, over the counter parts support and since the engine is already federalized, may pass emissions testing with the correct setup.
To add, personally I am building a Dormobile that will be much too heavy for a TDI to move around.
170 HP and 280 lbf⋅ft of torque with a stock 282 verses waiting for a TDI turbo to spool up and only gain 111 HP and 195 lbf⋅ft is a good enough reason.
The ability of the GM/Chevy to run a 1.22 TC and cruse at low RPM with a heavy loaded vehicle (about 2,400 RPM at 70 MPH) is another.
It's a no-brainer.
Face it... a TDI will barely keep up with modern traffic once you finally get up to speed.
They are smelly, noisy, quirky, and can't tow up hill - in fact to keep up with 70-75 MPH traffic, your foot is close to or remains to the floor.
On a steep upgrade you slow down.
Ordinary drivers will act aggressive because they don't want to be smoked-out when you step on it.
Pulling out and having to move over 3 or 4 lanes to make an exit is nerve racking because of the extremely slow acceleration.
They have mechanical issues, blow head gaskets, leak lots of oil, and have little domestic off-the-shelf parts support.
Load the vehicle up with any weight and the engine will struggle.
They run poorly at high altitudes and are just not that economical.
In many parts of Europe illegal to drive.
I talk to a lot of people who will not drive a diesel and/or have a spouse who won't ride with them.
All the above is why the LS conversions are so popular, but they are also very very very expense and require irreversible modifications.
The GM/Chevy inline six is smooth, reliable, powerful, and will bolt in.
The install can be accomplished in a weekend and is non-intrusive (can be removed and a different engine installed).
There is also domestic and in many foreign countries, over the counter parts support and since the engine is already federalized, may pass emissions testing with the correct setup.
To add, personally I am building a Dormobile that will be much too heavy for a TDI to move around.
170 HP and 280 lbf⋅ft of torque with a stock 282 verses waiting for a TDI turbo to spool up and only gain 111 HP and 195 lbf⋅ft is a good enough reason.
The ability of the GM/Chevy to run a 1.22 TC and cruse at low RPM with a heavy loaded vehicle (about 2,400 RPM at 70 MPH) is another.
It's a no-brainer.
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This is an experiment. Lets see how it plays out.
The benefits and compromises make it appealing. While I love the LS, I wouldn't ever tow with a Defender (well, not anything heavy, less than 1k). And I wouldn't be racing it. So an engine that wouldn't require a full vehicle rebuild and cheaply allow the vehicle to get to and maintain modern US highway speeds is extremely appealing.
I'd do a TBI on this. Of course I'd be stupid about it and go with a megasquirt, but deal with the devil you know.
When you consider a TDI 200 or 300 is about $4k...as is. Which basically means go ahead do the head gaskets, turbo, water pump, rebuild high pressure injector pump and injectors, etc. Its now a chunk of money and you still have a slow diesel.
GM 192 or 292 ?
RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
Moderator fixed the title.
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RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
Doing a trial fit this weekend and then working on the motor mounts that will bolt down to the existing 110 4 cylinder Pre-300TDI frame mounts and connect to the GM/Chevy 292.
Once completed, will start on the trial fit in a 110 with V8 motor mounts in order to gave swap options for both Rover 4 cylinder and V8 frame mounts.
Once completed, will start on the trial fit in a 110 with V8 motor mounts in order to gave swap options for both Rover 4 cylinder and V8 frame mounts.
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RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
Trial Fit with room to spare.
The right mount is staggered on the 292, but symmetrical on the GM250 which is rated at 155 BHP, 235 FTLB of torque.
So the 250 mounts are on center with the chassis mounts.
Next step will be to make the engine mounts, then pull the engine and fit it into our Swiss 110 that originally had a 3.5 V8, make those mounts and drive it.
I am thinking 292 for the heavy duty R380 Stumpy.
The 250 the R380 Stumpy or later LT77.
The 230 (140 BHP & 220 FTLB of torque) for the earlier LT77.
More to come.
The right mount is staggered on the 292, but symmetrical on the GM250 which is rated at 155 BHP, 235 FTLB of torque.
So the 250 mounts are on center with the chassis mounts.
Next step will be to make the engine mounts, then pull the engine and fit it into our Swiss 110 that originally had a 3.5 V8, make those mounts and drive it.
I am thinking 292 for the heavy duty R380 Stumpy.
The 250 the R380 Stumpy or later LT77.
The 230 (140 BHP & 220 FTLB of torque) for the earlier LT77.
More to come.
Attachments
RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
Finished up the prototype motor mounts that bolt right to the pre-300TDI 4 cylinder frame.
This particular frame was a 1985 110 that sported the grossly under powered 2.5 N/A.
Since the third generation GM/Chevy inline 6 was used in over 30 different vehicles there are many different coolant outlet housings.
All this engine needs is a left turn coolant outlet and all the hoses will easily fit.
Next step is to pull this engine as soon as the rain stops and mount it in our Swiss V8 110, make the prototype mounts and send both sets off to the metal fabricators to make the much prettier and professionally looking mounts.
The mounts I make are functional, but not as fancy looking.
The fabrication shop makes mounts that are just as strong and look factory.
This particular frame was a 1985 110 that sported the grossly under powered 2.5 N/A.
Since the third generation GM/Chevy inline 6 was used in over 30 different vehicles there are many different coolant outlet housings.
All this engine needs is a left turn coolant outlet and all the hoses will easily fit.
Next step is to pull this engine as soon as the rain stops and mount it in our Swiss V8 110, make the prototype mounts and send both sets off to the metal fabricators to make the much prettier and professionally looking mounts.
The mounts I make are functional, but not as fancy looking.
The fabrication shop makes mounts that are just as strong and look factory.
Attachments
RDavisinVA
Technical Excellence Contributor
Getting ready...
Installed:
Flywheel
Clutch
Oil Pressure sender and low pressure warning sender
Adapter
Dust shield on back side of adapter
Tested and installed the starter
Front Crank pulley: 2 belts for high output alternator, 2 belts for AC compressor, 1 belt for PS Pump.
Installed:
Flywheel
Clutch
Oil Pressure sender and low pressure warning sender
Adapter
Dust shield on back side of adapter
Tested and installed the starter
Front Crank pulley: 2 belts for high output alternator, 2 belts for AC compressor, 1 belt for PS Pump.
