Fixing the Roof Leak

[RBBailey]

The Defender tends to drop water on my leg when it is raining. Research suggests this is normal.... er.... common, and that it is due to the roof not actually being one piece, and that one of the seams has been put in the worst possible places -- the gutter.

My idea on how to fix this goes something like this:

1. Clean/wire brush the gutter and joint between gutter and roof.
2. Reseal with some kind of nuclear powered caulk.
3. Repaint.
4. Pray.

Any suggestions?

 

[uc4me]

I'm considering 3M Marine caulk white (red label tube) in the gutter problem areas. If it can keep my boats floating (one aluminum and other fiberglass) i'm pretty sure it'll keep a little rain out.

 

[CDN38]

In the gutter is about 1/4" of self levelling seam sealer. Ultimately, you need to remove it all, clean it all out and re-apply. (if you have to go that far) Have you removed the front portion of the headliner to verify where the water is coming from? Could be the top of the windscreen, or travelling along the inside of the headliner, or even a door seal not making proper contact with the roof/windscreen joint.

 

[nas90tdi]

3M 4200 works good for this. Stay away from the 5200 unless you are familiar with it. It will permanently affix your top for you if you aren't careful.

 

[RBBailey]

In the gutter is about 1/4" of self levelling seam sealer. Ultimately, you need to remove it all, clean it all out and re-apply. (if you have to go that far) Have you removed the front portion of the headliner to verify where the water is coming from? Could be the top of the windscreen, or travelling along the inside of the headliner, or even a door seal not making proper contact with the roof/windscreen joint.

No evidence of water coming in anywhere under the headliner, except for when it does come in it drips off the front end of the corner of the headliner where it meets the corner of the door and windscreen.

 

[nas90tdi]

I used to have a NAS 90 that liked to dump about a gallon of water out of the dash at the first turn from my house right on my feet. You get used to it after a while.

 

[RBBailey]

Looking at my roof, I don't think the water is coming in from the gutters. They look clean and sealed from some previous owner. I may reseal, but I doubt I could do better.

However, the seam across the top between the flat and forward angle is flaky and dirty all the way across.

Question: Do the ribbed roofs have seams under the ribs?

 

[RDavisinVA]

Question: Do the ribbed roofs have seams under the ribs?

No.

 

[RBBailey]

Well....

That didn't work.

I can't remember ever seeing this much water coming in. On the passenger side front door, there is an acceptable amount of water dripping in so that it is a bit wet on the floor along near the door bottom.

On the drivers side -- my feet are in standing water. It isn't an inch deep, but the whole floor panel is wet, and water is running back and forth across the floor panel when I go around corners.

I have new door seals, and I sealed the seam across the roof. I also sealed any spots along the gutter that looked iffy.

There is water coming in and pouring down the side of the dash, and any place from there to the bulkhead, to the door frame is wet.

The odd thing is, it is much worse than before I tried to fix the leaks....

 

[CDN38]

Could you post a couple photos showing where it's coming in?

 

[RBBailey]

I'll try. But I'm not 100% sure exact entry point. I'll have to wait till this weekend and use a hose to carefully try to replicate the leaks live. As it is, it does not seem to leak much while driving. At least not that I've noticed. This seems to be just while sitting.

The typical flow of water from out of the headliner onto the forward part of the door. But this is what I thought I had fixed by sealing the roof seams.

 

[rovingryan]

Unfortunately there are several seams, my ribbed roof had seams under the ribs at least on the back section. Best thing you can do is pull the headliner out and follow the water trail. I have been slowly working on leaks this year on mine and as of now no water has gotten in with it parked through the storms these last couple of days. However I do get a little bit leaking over the door seal at the top while driving on the driverside only.

 

[RBBailey]

I'm sitting in it now, and I can hear water running through my passenger door like someone left a sink on.

I think a good portion of what was on the floorboard is coming in behind the door seal from where the water drops off the gutter and onto the A-pillar.

Watching this happen makes me wonder deeply about the overall design of the gutter....

 

[mgreenspan]

From your initial description it also sounded like you were getting water under the press on door seal at the top. This sounds similar to what I had which was due to the water basically coming out of the gutter where the sealer was dried out and one of those tiny rivet like things was loose. You could see the water coming down then under the door seal then out a similar place at the front corner. Probably doesn't happen to you while driving because the water flows rearward. Sitting I'm guessing your truck is slightly higher in the back so water rolls forward in the gutters.

The gutter itself is garbage because the end of it lines up with the front window right around your knee. If the window is cracked more than about an inch then that water dumps in on you as you brake or slow down and the water shifts forward. I wish it was designed more like the GX470/LC Prado gutter that had a nice transition from the roof to the windshield(completely different gutter design since it doesn't hang over the edge like the Rover. The Defender has just the open gap that's supposed to funnel water correctly. I think it works for light rain but Pacific NW winter like last year... Not so much.

 

[RBBailey]

From your initial description it also sounded like you were getting water under the press on door seal at the top. This sounds similar to what I had which was due to the water basically coming out of the gutter where the sealer was dried out and one of those tiny rivet like things was loose. You could see the water coming down then under the door seal then out a similar place at the front corner. Probably doesn't happen to you while driving because the water flows rearward. Sitting I'm guessing your truck is slightly higher in the back so water rolls forward in the gutters.

The gutter itself is garbage because the end of it lines up with the front window right around your knee. If the window is cracked more than about an inch then that water dumps in on you as you brake or slow down and the water shifts forward. I wish it was designed more like the GX470/LC Prado gutter that had a nice transition from the roof to the windshield(completely different gutter design since it doesn't hang over the edge like the Rover. The Defender has just the open gap that's supposed to funnel water correctly. I think it works for light rain but Pacific NW winter like last year... Not so much.

Yep.

I think that's 90% of what I'm getting in the truck. My door seals are new, but in a way, I think this is making it worse. Where they grab onto the door frame is all nice new paint, and the nice new, not stuck in place after years of dirt and road mess, the water that drips off the gutter, drips almost exactly right between the door frame and the back of the seal, and it simply runs behind the seal, and into the cab.

I'm trying to think my way through a gutter solution.....

 

[CDN38]

There is a bit of adjustability on the door position (not a lot, but some). May be an idea to see if you can adjust the door to being slightly more forward to get contact with the seal.

 

[mgreenspan]

The door seals aren't that much money. Maybe just slather something(that's easily removable from the truck but not necessarily the seal) on them and see if having it kind of gunked on makes the water flow correctly. Could it be the seal is defective and the press on seam is too wide? No idea what the tolerance is.

 

[Napalm00]

Ever hear the story of the Mercedes engineers putting a canary into one of the test cars ? The engineers put the bird in the car and shut the doors and waited to see how long it would be until the bird ran out of oxygen. They wanted to make sure that the door seals we're perfectly airtight.

After a few days the canary was dead.

Land Rover Engineers decided they wanted to try the same test. They put the canary inside the truck, then came back the next day. The canary was gone.

 

[RBBailey]

The door seals aren't that much money. Maybe just slather something(that's easily removable from the truck but not necessarily the seal) on them and see if having it kind of gunked on makes the water flow correctly. Could it be the seal is defective and the press on seam is too wide? No idea what the tolerance is.

I was actually thinking maybe some petroleum jelly between the door and seal.

Tolerances? LOL.

 

[RBBailey]

Just figured out that there is a lot of water coming in from the clutch tower. My foot is... wet.