Exmoor Trim Jump Seats - Very Disappointed

[Classic4X4]

Felt obliged to do a little writeup on my experience with the Exmoor Trim inward facing tip-up "Jump Seats" purchased from a popular US supplier.

Fit/Finish

First observation after install is that the profile of the cushions was drastically different on all four. When opening the rear door and presented with the seating area its immediately obvious the curvature of the edges doesn't match. Only one seat had the sharp edge like OEM (behind drivers seat) - I can feel the sharp edge of the foam underneath the cover, it was just upholstered poorly.

Second observation was the quality of the finishing on the metal components. You can see tool/grinding marks underneath the finish. I don't know if they fab the frames or repurpose old ones but this was disappointing as well.

Installation was remarkably difficult – this is not necessarily the manufacturers’ fault but more of a LR design flaw – reminded me of removing outer wings if anyone’s ever done that job – makes you wish you had 12” fingers and 3 wrist joints.

Durability/Performance

With only a few days of driving, the support struts that swing in/out had loosened up and were screeching and smacking the back of the seats on turns. There's no way to tighten these.

I drove to Martha’s Vineyard for a long weekend the week following install. Here they were used for 3 consecutive days with passengers and issues immediately began to arise.

1: Nearly all of the fasteners rusted overnight in the salty air.

2: All of the hardware fastening the seat base to the metal trim/frame began to strip through the MDF board used to construct the seats. Nearly every posi-drive screw worked its way out. By the end of the trip, all four of the metal edge trim had fallen off. I used superglue to attempt to get them to stay in place after returning from the trip, but If the seats are used, they fall out again. The particle board used is unsuitable for actual use.

To preface my experience with the supplier – I was out of the warranty period but they sat in-box until I could install.

I reached out and explained the issues asking for advice/recommendations on how I might fix them. It took several emails over the course of several weeks to garner a response.

When I finally received a response, I was asked to send photos and told that I was out of the warranty period. After sending photos and explaining I was only looking for advice on how to fix/rectify I was ignored. I gave up after several follow-ups. This is after nearly a decade of using this supplier and nearly $10,000 in orders.

A word of advice: never buy anything until you're ready to install. These seats were remarkably expensive and I'm now left having to figure out how to make them useable. Even if I can make them functional, I will still be replacing them with seats that have a quality worthy of the rest of the build. I can't stand having 4 different shaped seats in there.

Photo 1 Shows drastically different cushion shape and height
Photo 2 Shows rusting hardware
Photos 3 and 4 show hardware failing/missing
Photo 5 shows trim pieces falling off.

 

[dsh]

Thank you for the update. Hopefully Exmoor takes note of this.
I recently reapolstered the front seats of my D90 with an Exmoor kit; so far so good.

 

[mitherial]

Your "install right after you buy" advice is excellent--I am sure we've all been burned on this. But it often conflicts with the competing claims of "I have no idea how long this thing I am ordering will take to get here, or whether it will still be in stock or even still made by the time I place and order" and "I have enough spare time to order things off the internet for my LR, but not enough time to actually install them."

For the foam shapes, I wonder if you ended up with a "mixed batch" of older and newer Exmoor tip-up seats? They periodically change their styles. The base material not being up to spec is a whole different level of bad.

As another data point, I bought a set of Exmoor (admittedly painfully overpriced) leather Puma front seats last fall, and they are pretty top-notch thus far (other than than RN sending me the wrong style seat--which they quickly corrected).

 

[Classic4X4]

Thank you for your replies - Definitely tough to install immediately, especially with some of the lead times on less available parts and when planning for longer jobs.

Honestly, more upsetting is being dismissed by the supplier after years of loyalty. Especially considering I made it clear my intentions were just to bring attention to the issue and collect advice on fixing it. I cant imagine I'm the only person who's dealt with thee issues -

 

[1of40]

You have to wonder what is going on there. Are they old and tired and milking the business until it dies on the vine?

 

[TravelinLight]

Did you contact the Parts Supplier to see what they can do for you?

 

[Napalm00]

You have to wonder what is going on there. Are they old and tired and milking the business until it dies on the vine?

I don't think so , this type of quality is rampant is the automotive aftermarket. Try buying nice Mopar shit

 

[supertreeman]

I had almost the exact same experience / impressions with a set I bought 5 years ago. I installed, but then ended up sending back for refund. The quality was terrible. Ive had hit or miss success with exmoor trim. Some stuff has been great, while others have been total crap..

 

[rocky]

You say something I’ve been trying to do more successfully.

Only buy stuff you are instantly ready to use it/install it upon arrival. Doesn’t matter it’s purpose, car, home etc. Put it to work upon arrival.

 

[1of40]

I don't think so , this type of quality is rampant is the automotive aftermarket. Try buying nice Mopar shit

Yeah, ur right. I’d love to know how old the well know adage “u get what I pay for” is. It sure is still running strong. The western world gambled and sacrificed quality when it moved production to Asia. And manufacturing isn’t coming back anytime soon with $2/hr wages in Vietnam today. Even China has priced themselves out of the market at this point.

 

[Classic4X4]

Did you contact the Parts Supplier to see what they can do for you?

I bought them from Rover's North who is technically the NA distributor for Exmoor - I guess I could try working directly with Exmoor UK but RN summarily dismissed my concerns.

 

[Z.G]

Im sorry that you had that experience with us, that is not what I like to hear. I will say that the 2 year warranty is pretty generous while having to support British quality control, and we eat that cost.

Realistically we have to start the warranty at time of delivery, as we have no idea how long an item will go before being installed.

Im happy to forward your concerns onto Exmoor if you'd like to forward me the email chain. Zack@Roversnorth.com

 

[TravelinLight]

That's why I asked @Classic4X4 I assumed Zack would be around quickly to check in

 

[Classic4X4]

Im sorry that you had that experience with us, that is not what I like to hear. I will say that the 2 year warranty is pretty generous while having to support British quality control, and we eat that cost.

Realistically we have to start the warranty at time of delivery, as we have no idea how long an item will go before being installed.

Im happy to forward your concerns onto Exmoor if you'd like to forward me the email chain. Zack@Roversnorth.com

Hmm - I had explained in my email I had ordered them the previous year (I thought the warranty was 1 year) - I wish someone had responded. Maybe I wouldn't be stuck with them now.

But onward and upwards. The seats were the issue and my failure to immediately install is what got me here - a 2 year warranty is far beyond fair.

In almost a decade of orders I've never had an issue and have always been thrilled with RN's team and service. Just wanted to do a writeup about the jump seats for anyone else considering.

 

[Z.G]

That's why I asked @Classic4X4 I assumed Zack would be around quickly to check in

Unfortunately I was away on vacation while this was happening!

But yes, I unfortunately share your concerns with the quality control I often see. Please do shoot me an email and if it's within the 2 years then it shouldn't be an issue.

The jump seats in general arent a great design, especially the bases(this is not exclusive to Exmoor). We do offer these as an upgrade to the factory "Cardboard" https://www.roversnorth.com/parts/plq762_board_rear_jump_seat_base_series_defender_aluminum

 

[rocky]

I know a few trim shops here and materials have been in very short supply. So much so, if more of a particular product becomes available than they need they buy it all up.
Craftsmen they need, skilled enough to do a good job, are in really short supply.
It can’t be any different in the UK. If anything, from family over there, things are worse than here. Far worse.

 

[Dipodomys]

RN is the sole authorized distributor for Exmoor Trim products in the U.S. Exmoor will not ship directly to U.S. addresses; instead all orders must be placed with RN. That would be fine, but RN charges a 100 percent markup on Exmoor's products, and then tacks on insulting shipping charges that equal or exceed what you'd pay for direct air freight from the UK. Case in point...the tip-up seats that Classic 4x4 purchased cost £106.12 from Exmoor, or about $125. The same item from RN costs $229. That's a markup of more than 100 percent, and doesn't include any sort of wholesale discount RN probably gets from Exmoor. Yeah, RN has to pay to ship it over from the UK, but they almost certainly recover via the amount they'll charge you to ship it from Vermont to wherever you are in the U.S.

I ordered abut $1,500 of stuff from Exmoor and had it shipped to a UK address to get around that restriction, and then had it forwarded via air freight to Arizona. That meant I had to pay 20% UK VAT, but even then I came out way ahead of what I would have paid if I'd purchased from RN.

 

[chuckc4]

RN is the sole authorized distributor for Exmoor Trim products in the U.S. Exmoor will not ship directly to U.S. addresses; instead all orders must be placed with RN. That would be fine, but RN charges a 100 percent markup on Exmoor's products, and then tacks on insulting shipping charges that equal or exceed what you'd pay for direct air freight from the UK. Case in point...the tip-up seats that Classic 4x4 purchased cost £106.12 from Exmoor, or about $125. The same item from RN costs $229. That's a markup of more than 100 percent, and doesn't include any sort of wholesale discount RN probably gets from Exmoor. Yeah, RN has to pay to ship it over from the UK, but they almost certainly recover via the amount they'll charge you to ship it from Vermont to wherever you are in the U.S.

I ordered abut $1,500 of stuff from Exmoor and had it shipped to a UK address to get around that restriction, and then had it forwarded via air freight to Arizona. That meant I had to pay 20% UK VAT, but even then I came out way ahead of what I would have paid if I'd purchased from R

In fairness to Rovers North, they have a very good reputation for jumping on a problem right away if it is communicated to them. They also keep a large number of parts in inventory, which is very convenient to keeping a Land Rover on the road rather than just sitting in the garage waiting for parts. Rovers North has very knowledgeable staff, and fully supports the Land Rover community -- they have been supporting the Land Rover community for more than 40 years in many ways that has enriched many of our common experiences with these vehicles. Now I do not know what RN's gross profit margin is on Exmoor, but if their markup is only 100% then they are definitely in this business more for love than profit.

As to "insulting" shipping charges, the shipping industry is really the one providing the insult. I don't know the ins and outs of RN's shipping and receiving department but I can assure you there is a cost there that needs to be recouped to just break even. When you order a part at 1:30pm and it makes a 3:00pm pickup, there are logistics and a human factor that costs RN a fair amount of money as a business.

Now, I am all for saving money, but at what future cost to Land Rover ownership in the US? And, if you had an issue with the parts you bought from Exmoor direct (sale and initial possession in England, then forwarded here to the US) I doubt they would be any help if there was indeed a problem, unless you got those parts back to England, then back to Exmoor -- total PITA! RN's ability to deal with issues arising from factors out of their control also costs them money.

Oh, did you also just admit to smu_ _lin_ on a public forum -- Vanna can I get a _ please?

 

[javelinadave]

I know what is brewing so please be civil and keep it "G" rated.

 

[Dipodomys]

In fairness to Rovers North, they have a very good reputation for jumping on a problem right away if it is communicated to them. They also keep a large number of parts in inventory, which is very convenient to keeping a Land Rover on the road rather than just sitting in the garage waiting for parts. Rovers North has very knowledgeable staff, and fully supports the Land Rover community -- they have been supporting the Land Rover community for more than 40 years in many ways that has enriched many of our common experiences with these vehicles. Now I do not know what RN's gross profit margin is on Exmoor, but if their markup is only 100% then they are definitely in this business more for love than profit.

As to "insulting" shipping charges, the shipping industry is really the one providing the insult. I don't know the ins and outs of RN's shipping and receiving department but I can assure you there is a cost there that needs to be recouped to just break even. When you order a part at 1:30pm and it makes a 3:00pm pickup, there are logistics and a human factor that costs RN a fair amount of money as a business.

Now, I am all for saving money, but at what future cost to Land Rover ownership in the US? And, if you had an issue with the parts you bought from Exmoor direct (sale and initial possession in England, then forwarded here to the US) I doubt they would be any help if there was indeed a problem, unless you got those parts back to England, then back to Exmoor -- total PITA! RN's ability to deal with issues arising from factors out of their control also costs them money.

Oh, you also just admitted to smu_ _lin_ on a public forum -- Vanna can I get a _ please?

No smuggling was involved...I declared and paid U.S. duties on the goods I imported from the UK, and still came out many hundreds ahead. The only thing I could potentially be "guilty" of is finding a workaround to RN's exclusive distributorship of Exmoor products in the U.S. Exmoor would be wise to consider how their exclusive agreement with RN almost certainly depresses sales of their products in this country, based on RNs substantial markup. There have to be many people that see the price and say "no thanks."

As for shipping...I recently paid $19.95 in shipping from RN for a book that cost $24.95. I've experienced the same with other purchases. Regardless of the weight, size, or speed of delivery, their shipping costs are the highest I have experienced from any vendor for any product. They aren't Amazon, of course, but there has to be a happy medium, and they very much seem to be on the high side of that.

Until my recent purchase of a 1997 Defender 90 Wolf that I've just imported, I last owned a Land Rover in the late 1980s and very early 1990s (a 1974 Series III), and RN was by far the best show in town. Here in the U.S., they made owning a Land Rover during the pre-internet "wilderness years" possible, and for that I am very grateful. They kept Land Rover ownership alive during that period. Their quality of service was outstanding, and my recent interactions with them indicate that hasn't changed. They put out a beautiful quarterly magazine/catalog and have a fine website. It's just their prices that are extremely off-putting. I wish it weren't true, but it is.