R380 + LS

AdamSanta85

Well-known member
I feel like I don't know where to look for parts... Engines I see are ranging around $3000 and tranny's around $2000 (automatic).

There is a guy on craigslist that has NV4500 but he wants $1800 for tranny then I need to buy bell housing, shifter etc I am going to be at like $3500 just in tranny parts.
 

Boswalt

Well-known member
I feel like I don't know where to look for parts... Engines I see are ranging around $3000 and tranny's around $2000 (automatic).

There is a guy on craigslist that has NV4500 but he wants $1800 for tranny then I need to buy bell housing, shifter etc I am going to be at like $3500 just in tranny parts.





Advance adapters http://www.advanceadapters.com/prod...95-gm-nv4500-5-speed-adapter-bellhousing-kit/


This is for the older NV4500


Where are you looking for engines? I paid $350 for mine and rebuilt the top end, added a LS1 intake, LS1 fuel rail, new water pump, new alternator and all new sensors for about $1100.
 

Red90

Well-known member
To use the NV4500 you needed to buy transmission, inspect that it was working/repair if needed, make some adaption to the shifter area, use NV4500 clutch disc, and slave cylinder?

FWIW I already have an R380 L suffix in my truck which makes the R380 way more tempting.. If I had to buy anyway..

Are you short bellhousing? It will complex to fit a V8 with a short bellhousing. Also will be fun getting a clutch that will last. There is just not enough room for a proper clutch.
 

Boswalt

Well-known member
https://abbotsford.craigslist.ca/pts/d/nv4500-4x4-trans/6519221242.html


This is just an example....Canadian funds so about $750US. I got mine through a private party, not a yard so you might have to wait for the right deal to come along. The GM's are rarer but usually lower cost than the dodge version.


I'm not trying to spin this as a financially responsible decision, just letting you know that you can find lower cost options. Like I've said before, instead of throwing money at a problem, slow down, wait for the right deal. One of my biggest concerns was shelling out $5-7K for a TDI kit then not knowing what condition the used motor and tranny would be in when it arrived on the pallet. I chose LS because I can slowly acquire parts and didn't have to shell out the huge initial cost. But no motor swap is cheap.
 

AdamSanta85

Well-known member
Are you short bellhousing? It will complex to fit a V8 with a short bellhousing. Also will be fun getting a clutch that will last. There is just not enough room for a proper clutch.

Yes I am, but I could get a normal bell housing, or sell this transmission and get a regular R380.

I am not worried about a clutch to hold 330 crank torque. I have a local clutch guy who can make me whatever I want and industry contacts if I need to go further. A strong pressure plate with a cerametallic full face disc and some good springs in the disc. Some of the strongest multi disc racing clutches are tiny... They make the flywheel look huge. Way smaller in diameter then what is currently installed.

genThumb1.php
 

AdamSanta85

Well-known member
https://abbotsford.craigslist.ca/pts/d/nv4500-4x4-trans/6519221242.html


This is just an example....Canadian funds so about $750US. I got mine through a private party, not a yard so you might have to wait for the right deal to come along. The GM's are rarer but usually lower cost than the dodge version.


I'm not trying to spin this as a financially responsible decision, just letting you know that you can find lower cost options. Like I've said before, instead of throwing money at a problem, slow down, wait for the right deal. One of my biggest concerns was shelling out $5-7K for a TDI kit then not knowing what condition the used motor and tranny would be in when it arrived on the pallet. I chose LS because I can slowly acquire parts and didn't have to shell out the huge initial cost. But no motor swap is cheap.

Yea closest to here I can find is this

https://cnj.craigslist.org/pts/d/rebuilt-nv4500-nvrh-re-48re/6501349986.html

I get it. I am choosing LS because I want more power, TDI isn't enough for me. I just hear stories of these budget LS builds but everytime I go look for an engine or tranny its $5k + everything else.

Some dude on craiglist says he has a LQ4 for $1200.

I just think this swap would be "better" if we could use an upgraded stock tranny instead of an automatic or retrofitting something else in.

I shot Dave Aschroft an email. Curious to hear his thoughts.
 

Boswalt

Well-known member
If you're looking for engines at reasonable prices, look for an LM7 or an LR4. Nick had an LM7 with painless harness just about ready to drop in for cheap if you don't mind shipping from socal.


GenIII is way cheaper than the GenIV motors and still tons of power. I'm not a tuner but I think it's easier to set up the GenIII as well.
 

AdamSanta85

Well-known member
Spoke with Dave Ashcroft. He thinks it's a "little much" for an R380 tranny though it COULD work. He said the weak link is unfortunately the gears which strip clean. Upgraded gears while could work would be very expensive... It would be a shame to get everything setup for the R380 and then have to go to another transmission which would likely require moving the engine again etc.

He recommended a place in the UK that can set me up with a Tremec T56 for a Defender... I sent them an email, I am sure it won't be cheap.
 

donb

Well-known member
Do you already have a good condition R380? If so, what about Robert's straight six conversion? There is a pair of 250's a couple towns over from me: https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/pts/d/chevy-gm-inline-6-cylinder/6534675968.html

While not LS power stock the GM250 has better stats than a 200tdi. Add a turbo to a inline 6 and you can be in the near 300 lb/ft & HP range.

This Turbo Camaro series is pretty interesting. The engine is ultra clean: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtf1_USlEV7qOQ1NheNa54w
 

Mack

Well-known member
Spoke with Dave Ashcroft. He thinks it's a "little much" for an R380 tranny though it COULD work. He said the weak link is unfortunately the gears which strip clean. Upgraded gears while could work would be very expensive... It would be a shame to get everything setup for the R380 and then have to go to another transmission which would likely require moving the engine again etc.

He recommended a place in the UK that can set me up with a Tremec T56 for a Defender... I sent them an email, I am sure it won't be cheap.

Is it Rakeway? I talked to them about the T56 to LT230 adapter they make. Not cheap is right.
 

AdamSanta85

Well-known member
Is it Rakeway? I talked to them about the T56 to LT230 adapter they make. Not cheap is right.

Yes that's the place

http://www.rakeway.co.uk/page21.html

Really sucks aftermarket gears are so expensive, something like $7-$10k alone. It would be a great thing if someone could buy an upgraded R380 with stronger gears from Ashcroft, use it with LR motor XYZ, than at some point down the road buy the LS and adapter and install. Instead we are in this all or nothing situation.
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/

Ashcroft said the LT85 transmission is good and strong, but shifts are clunky.
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/manual-gearboxes/santana-lt85.html
 

AdamSanta85

Well-known member
Do you already have a good condition R380? If so, what about Robert's straight six conversion? There is a pair of 250's a couple towns over from me: https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/pts/d/chevy-gm-inline-6-cylinder/6534675968.html

While not LS power stock the GM250 has better stats than a 200tdi. Add a turbo to a inline 6 and you can be in the near 300 lb/ft & HP range.

This Turbo Camaro series is pretty interesting. The engine is ultra clean: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtf1_USlEV7qOQ1NheNa54w

You know, that sounds like an awesome simple swap. Yea I am already brand new R380 installed ready to go. I asked my muscle car friends if they knew of anyone with one of those motors to sell, they flipped out on me for some reason. "You aren't putting that joke of a motor in your truck, if you are swapping it is LS or nothing blah blah"

Part of me wants to put a bigger turbo on the 200, port the head, and crank the boost up to 20 but if I grenade the engine it will cost way more to fix than a replacement LS long block.
 

donb

Well-known member
You know, that sounds like an awesome simple swap. Yea I am already brand new R380 installed ready to go. I asked my muscle car friends if they knew of anyone with one of those motors to sell, they flipped out on me for some reason. "You aren't putting that joke of a motor in your truck, if you are swapping it is LS or nothing blah blah"

Part of me wants to put a bigger turbo on the 200, port the head, and crank the boost up to 20 but if I grenade the engine it will cost way more to fix than a replacement LS long block.

I'm really intrigued by the GM inline 6 swap although I'm still messing with my OM617 install and tuning.

Also remember that a LR90 is a way different animal than a muscle car. I am sure an LS install on a Defender is the bees knees but it seems the costs can add up (although any engine install isn't cheap). I think the cheapest LS swap I've read about was $10k (from Phoneix) and I feel like LS engines are as cheap as they once were. The latest

When I had my 3.9 NAS90, I felt the power output wasn't bad when it was running correctly - I just felt it wasn't consistent running enough . If you could get a reliable 275-300HP/TQ out of a simple and straight forward inline 6 that would be very nice. Everything after the engine on the driveline would be fine (although axles could be the week link depending on terrain and tire size). That low end and then flat torque curve I've seen of the inline 6's look like it would be just right for off road driving.

I have to say the main thing I liked about my OM617 swap was everything behind the engine stayed the same. R380 clutch, the R380, linkage/hoes and obviously the LT230 is stock 2.5/200tdi and placement.

Things like the engine oil cooler and lines, intercooler setup, and downpipe has taken me a lot of time and effort. For the GM 6 you might not even have to worry about the IC or engine oil cooler and the downpipe should match up to a stock 200tdi exhaust very easily (same side exit).

It would be neat to see the limits of the 200tdi. But like you said would be expensive if you fail not to mention the costs of porting the head and new turbo (another $1k?). Also a good condition 200tdi seems to be selling for around $3k-$4k. And realistically what would the 200tdi be able to do? 250-275 lb ft and maybe 175HP?
 

Landy_Andy

Well-known member
You could talk to LRA and see if they'd be willing to sell a TR6060 kit, it looks a sweet conversion.

May also work out cheaper than an NV4500 as there getting harder to find in good condition these days and the 6 speed would make a much nicer highway cruiser.
 

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AdamSanta85

Well-known member
You could talk to LRA and see if they'd be willing to sell a TR6060 kit, it looks a sweet conversion.

May also work out cheaper than an NV4500 as there getting harder to find in good condition these days and the 6 speed would make a much nicer highway cruiser.

Oh man you can get a nice one of those for $1800. For my use I would much prefer this to the NV4500. I'm sure in 1st/2nd and or low it would be fine on the beach and I could bang gears on the street

https://www.astroperformance.com/product/rebuilt-gt-500-tr-6060-6-speed/

Thanks for that
 

Mack

Well-known member
I would potentially be interested in the TR6060 at some point in the future, let us know what you hear if you reach out to Les Richmond.
 
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