Rover Resto Shops Must Be Busy

Posted on the other site as well...

It appears with the robust economy, the Rover restoration business must be booming. I base that on my inability to get any reputable shop from the Rockies west to express any interest in my resto on the NAS 90.

Perhaps it?s my scope of work that?s off putting or not lucrative enough for shops? I?m looking for a reputable shop with prior LS experience to install an LS/6L80E combo into an already restored chassis/body that my young boys and I are undertaking. It would be a clean slate for the shop, (no removal of old powertrain, not a drop of oil/grease/rust to deal with, new parts, and whatever body/interior parts left off to make engine install easier) and I?d also like for said shop to button up the resto to completion (dash, HVAC, etc).

I?d like to keep this project Rockies (Colorado) west for logistics purposes. Am I off base here?


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I briefly spoke to ECR and they told me they won't take on any new customers with Row trucks right now. They won't do any major work on ROWs for former clients even. They seem to have a ton of work with their new "turn a 90 Nas into a 110" offerings.

I think the profits are too good on importing, restoring and selling. Or atleast, that is what people think from looking at eBay. My brother found a shop that had a RHD, 110, 200Tdi, "outfitted for expedition" (roof rack and arb bumper). It looks like a very nice original truck, they did repaint it recently. Asking $120k. Rediculous. But if shops think they can sell for $100k+ they're going to turn you down 9/10 times.

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The robust economy is going to result in many more shops building/selling restored vehicles here in the US.
While some will be Rover repair shops who have teamed up with a local trusted Body shop, others will be new to the Rover world and just have their eye on the $$$.

What’s that ECR nas 90 to 110 conversation cost? Afaf

rocky said:

The robust economy is going to result in many more shops building/selling restored vehicles here in the US.
While some will be Rover repair shops who have teamed up with a local trusted Body shop, others will be new to the Rover world and just have their eye on the $$$.

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From what I hear there are no less than 10 companies here in the SLC valley that are importing, polishing and selling Pre-defenders and Defenders. Craziness. They don't really work on them post sale either.

It's the latest version of all the people making AR rifles post AWB. So much garbage with a few quality builds. It is certainly going to be a boom for guys like Zack at RN selling parts and whomever sets up shops to un-fuck the shitty builds people get stuck with.

Yeah, there will be a ton of un-fucking going on. I see all kinds of crap ?shops? in Charleston that sell bespoke pieces of re-painted shit all day long.

If a fella were to start a legitimate shop that actually worked on, maintained and restored Land Rovers, they would make a pretty good living. Of course they need to be good at it.


The whole ECR thing blows my mind a little. As a contractor, I?ve always taken the ?shit? work along with the good stuff. Their snobbiness towards any Land Rover other than NAS is honestly a turn off for me. If one day I want a frame off on a NAS 110, but you refused to work on my IIA, I?ll go to the shop that helped me throughout any model rover 10 out of 10 times.

I probably got way off topic.

Contractor said:

If a fella were to start a legitimate shop that actually worked on, maintained and restored Land Rovers, they would make a pretty good living. Of course they need to be good at it. And if they set realistic delivery dates and communicated with the customer well.

I probably got way off topic.

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AND
if they set realistic delivery dates and communicated with the customer well.

These are the things I think would set a great shop apart from the rest.

I?m thinking ECR has it made. I?m a huge fan of their work but not so much with their business model as some of you have pointed out. I can?t take the ?but we are reasonable when all
Is said and done because we are so NAS experienced? when they want $80K for a rustbucket non-roadworthy NAS 110 or own the Safety Devices contract but won?t sell their bumpers stand-alone, to name a few things. They can drop that schtick and still be good, it just gets old. Look, their perfection costs $$$$ and they should be proud of that. Seriously. You have to remember that their clientele I?m going to guess is in a completely different stratosphere financially than many of us enthusiasts. They can wait for their turn (I?m sure their NAS is not their daily driver), won?t think twice about ECR utilizing only the best parts and procedures, and wait for the build to be done on ECRs schedule. I?m also going to guess that on the opposite end of the spectrum, many of the other reputable builders have enthusiast clientele that may or may not be truck rich and money poor who don?t have the luxuries afforded to the ECR clientele.

As a business owner myself, Im happy for ECRs success and their model. But their attitude to enthusiasts seems condescending, especially when they continue to interact on these forums by their own choice. Would they not assist a Roverite they ran across in New England stranded on the side of the road? I would like to believe they?d be more than happy to stop and help on their own accord. And I still wouldn?t hesitate to refer a NAS owner with the time and finances to ECR for work, all that being said because I believe they truly are the top dogs in this game.

The problem, same as I see it in the construction game in Idaho, is that the you can?t overnight quality just because the economy supports or demands it. As in structure building, I am going to guess it takes years of work under an experienced builder to be ?good?. I think we are seeing that with ROW trucks springing up everywhere stateside with a paint job.

Anywhoo,

I may have a lead. Thanks all.






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I'm confused by your post.

I don't think their attitude is condescending towards enthusiasts. Their shop is a specific size because they value quality over quantity. They choose to work primarily on NAS trucks because they are actually worth money and likely aren't coming in for an engine swap but requiring an entire build from the ground up. If I owned a shop that did rebuilds and refurbs I'd probably require an in person face to face inspection with the vehicle owner if it was a UK spec or ROW vehicle. How many owners don't know how clapped out their trucks are because they've got 5 layers of waxoyl over duct tape holding rust chunks together? It has to be beyond frustrating when the owner doesn't understand that this and that need replacing and you aren't going to save money by reusing old parts.

They got a bumper rebuilt by a company that stopped building them, what are you angry about? I view it as more of a marketing/branding thing. Their trucks all leave looking a certain way... Not like a Hot Wheels toy in a blister pack. Not to mention they made a business deal. They aren't a parts business, I don't think they have any capacity built up to sell just a bumper and ship it any different than a random guy doing that so they choose not to because everyone would demand it. I don't even think they ship used parts lots when they sell them off. It's generally just come pick it up in person.

To me it makes sense to work only on NAS vehicles. I'd prefer my business name to be associated with a builds that are $40k in parts/labor om a $50k vehicle rather than vehicles that have $80k in parts/labor on a $10k vehicle. Later on down the road, quality of work being equal, that NAS is going to be worth closer to what it is selling for and has had invested in it than the ROW. The labor, although always attempted to be recouped by the seller due to poor life choices, should not be considered part of the actual cost of the vehicle.

I’m certain the ECR rep and perception is what has evolved over a long time and as a result of many instances and various factors only a business owner can imagine and appreciates. What a business like ECR has endured over the years I have to imagine is impressive. What I admire is the fact that they started well before ROWs were selling for ridiculous money and when nobody imagined, including LRNA with all their resources, what NAS would become. They I’m sure have had to step on a few dicks to get to this point and don’t forget it is a constant battle to keep your ground. So my hat is off to Mike and the business he has on those grounds. For me he doesn’t have a product I’m interested in because of how i use my trucks. But to be honest I owe him some credit for my 90, after 17 years and 173k miles/smiles and more trips/events than I can count, being worth more than I’ve got in it.

mgreenspan said:

I'm confused by your post.

I don't think their attitude is condescending towards enthusiasts. Their shop is a specific size because they value quality over quantity. They choose to work primarily on NAS trucks because they are actually worth money and likely aren't coming in for an engine swap but requiring an entire build from the ground up. If I owned a shop that did rebuilds and refurbs I'd probably require an in person face to face inspection with the vehicle owner if it was a UK spec or ROW vehicle. How many owners don't know how clapped out their trucks are because they've got 5 layers of waxoyl over duct tape holding rust chunks together? It has to be beyond frustrating when the owner doesn't understand that this and that need replacing and you aren't going to save money by reusing old parts.

They got a bumper rebuilt by a company that stopped building them, what are you angry about? I view it as more of a marketing/branding thing. Their trucks all leave looking a certain way... Not like a Hot Wheels toy in a blister pack. Not to mention they made a business deal. They aren't a parts business, I don't think they have any capacity built up to sell just a bumper and ship it any different than a random guy doing that so they choose not to because everyone would demand it. I don't even think they ship used parts lots when they sell them off. It's generally just come pick it up in person.

To me it makes sense to work only on NAS vehicles. I'd prefer my business name to be associated with a builds that are $40k in parts/labor om a $50k vehicle rather than vehicles that have $80k in parts/labor on a $10k vehicle. Later on down the road, quality of work being equal, that NAS is going to be worth closer to what it is selling for and has had invested in it than the ROW. The labor, although always attempted to be recouped by the seller due to poor life choices, should not be considered part of the actual cost of the vehicle.

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I believe I was more than clear that 1. IMO they are the best Rover shop stateside and 2. their business model is to be respected.

However, I find it amusing that a site that is so enthusiast based is so quick to defend ECR?s interactions and business model. How many DSource trucks have been built specifically for a DSource Member or even touched by Mike?
They interact as ?enthusiasts? but cater to a different crowd. Having available a few custom parts (or take offs as they do quite often btw) such as that damn SD bumper (which SD says to contact ECR to obtain) would go a long way to help fellow enthusiasts and perhaps gain a future customer or just goodwill. The market will not always support our current paths and it?s good practice not to alienate potential customers especially when times get lean or every NAS truck has been rebuilt or burnt to the ground.

As I said, they should just drop that tired old song and be proud of what they do, how they do it, and their clientele. They do a fantastic job on the trucks, and I am glad they are future proofing so many NAS trucks. If I didn?t want to share this build experience with my two young boys, I?d consider waiting in line to have my NAS masterfully crafted by ECR (not that they?d take my trucks after my rant here).

I don?t know why I?m on this topic, jacking my own thread.







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If you are a shop and can't do a quality build on a Defender, NAS or ROW (shouldn't matter same damn truck) you are a joke. There is no easier vehicle to work on than a Defender. They are legos for adults. Defender shops don't realize how easy they have it.

A NAS truck is a NAS truck. A ROW truck could be as it rolled out of the factory, a complete pile of crap or anything in between. I get their logic and their business plan but personally a ROW owners money is just as green as a NAS owner. I would offer services to both with the understanding that an estimate on a ROW truck is just an estimate.

javelinadave said:

A NAS truck is a NAS truck. A ROW truck could be as it rolled out of the factory, a complete pile of crap or anything in between.

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In my 3 years of ownership, I have seen quite a few POS NAS trucks too.

i'd argue that NAS are much more difficult to work on because a good number of the parts are specific to NAS, more so year by year, and many are no longer available. also, due to the value they in general have, the work "should" be done to a higher standard.

most ROW you could mix and match stuff from the 30 year production run and it wouldn't much matter. just make it work. authenticity not as much of a concern.

adam

As an enthusiast, I would defend Mike and ECR on the fact that they are true enthusiasts and have been for longer than most. I met Mike more than 20 years ago at a Rover event in Vermont -- he and the ECR crew could arguably be one of the first shops that dedicated themselves to high quality Land Rover modification and restoration. The lightweight they resto-modified for Bill Bear is legendary. And, Mike was very gracious about sharing what he did to the truck as an enthusiast, and a business owner.

There was a time when dealers couldn't get $40,000 for a brand new NAS110, so what Mike and ECR did as a business was risky -- the ECR crew were pioneers. That risk paid off, and now they can pick and choose what they want to do. That is the prerogative of many successful businesses.

BE a true enthusiast, take that truck apart in your garage and do the work yourself -- those boys will learn a lot more than seeing someone else do the work.

enthusiasm

SMac said:

I believe I was more than clear that 1. IMO they are the best Rover shop stateside and 2. their business model is to be respected.

However, I find it amusing that a site that is so enthusiast based is so quick to defend ECR?s interactions and business model. How many DSource trucks have been built specifically for a DSource Member or even touched by Mike?
They interact as ?enthusiasts? but cater to a different crowd. Having available a few custom parts (or take offs as they do quite often btw) such as that damn SD bumper (which SD says to contact ECR to obtain) would go a long way to help fellow enthusiasts and perhaps gain a future customer or just goodwill. The market will not always support our current paths and it?s good practice not to alienate potential customers especially when times get lean or every NAS truck has been rebuilt or burnt to the ground.

As I said, they should just drop that tired old song and be proud of what they do, how they do it, and their clientele. They do a fantastic job on the trucks, and I am glad they are future proofing so many NAS trucks. If I didn?t want to share this build experience with my two young boys, I?d consider waiting in line to have my NAS masterfully crafted by ECR (not that they?d take my trucks after my rant here).

I don?t know why I?m on this topic, jacking my own thread.







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Obviously different interactions makes different opinions. As a business owner myself, I understand your value proposition may be ever changing depending on a multitude of factors. I?m sure the ECR crew are standup folks, and stand up business minds. And a lot of times that takes massive risk. That?s why they are where they are.

Y?all don?t feel like you have to defend ECR, please. Think I?ve been more than clear on my position which does not slander them in the least to the customer base they choose currently. The enthusiast label, however, is debatable but in no way affects their business CURRENTLY.

And btw, also clearly stated the truck is being rebuilt, minus the powertrain install, by my boys and I. If I didn?t have kids, as stated I would have pinged ECR from the onset for a hands off approach.








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What I think keeps them loved here is they share the work they do. They constantly show the work they are doing and what they need to do to get it to the level they want.

'don't have anything bad to say about them. Even though they say they're not a parts supplier, they do make available those custom-made inserts for the '97 NAS center console that they had made up, which was just the thing I needed for the current refurb on my rig.