200tdi injection pump tuning

I am in need of some guidance in tuning my 200tdi IP. Something isn't spot on, I've messed around with moving the smoke screw, but it is obvious I need to dig a littler deeper.

My 200tdi has an Alisport VNT turbo with a full width intercooler. I have a boost gauge installed and a pyro that is before the turbo.

Generally, speaking I can easily hit 1330 degrees with just by a light mash of the gas around town. I'm talking like 40mph and going up an ant size hill. I'm pretty sure I've gone above the working limit for a moment or two on the highway trying to get out of someones way - that brief trip above the working limit has me concerned . I am generally getting a light black haze of smoke at the low end when I accelerate hard it becomes black all the way through. My boost seems a little wonky with the gauge only reporting a max of 14psi, which seems low for a VNT. I have confirmed the waste gate is opening at 20psi.

My top speed is around 65. I have verified that there are no obstructions in the turbo hoses. The engine is getting nice cold air from the wing. I had a new injection pump installed about 800 miles ago. The shop (which is a good one) said they timed it using a dial indicator and everything is correct. This shop also said they can't help me anymore since it has a VNT and they feel it is beyond their expertise. They recommended a specialty diesel tuner, but the tuner also said he couldn't assist.

At this point I want to 1) be able to drive without being glued to the pyro 2) strike a good balance between performance and reliability 3) I'd even consider putting the stock turbo back on just to get back to a known state.

I feel kind of the end of the line in that I'm not knowledgeable enough to fix the issue and at the same time my fall back of use a shop isn't an option either.

For tuning I don't know where to start. Do I back of on the power adjustment a bit on the rear of the pump? And then start trying to adjust the diaphragm and star wheel?

If any one in the New England area wants to through their hat in the ring I can promise some good beer and a nicely cooked dinner for some help.

Turn back the main fueling screw. You are way over fueled.

I would check the timing as well since that shop has no clue.

Has anyone checked that the timing belt is set correctly?

Thanks. I'll back off on the main fueling. It was a rebuilt unit from Turner. Guess I had assumed they had dialed it in as part of the rebuild.

Is it worth trying to see if there was any damage from going over the limit or just let it run its course?

I trusted the shop, but have not verified. Guess it is time to move to trust, then verify.

Going over 1300 won't hurt anything. People run much higher all the time.

Have you checked for boost leaks? That is a big possibility.

Got it. I haven't tested for a leak, but I will.

Any tips for getting the safety collar off?

Also, any chance that the muffler is causing some excess restriction? It seems a little big.

burlsube said:

Any tips for getting the safety collar off?

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A dremel worked for me

burlsube said:

Also, any chance that the muffler is causing some excess restriction? It seems a little big.

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I doubt it. Unbolt it and find out. I have my center muffler deleted.


You find that boost leak yet and get it running target boost? I would certainly do that before messing with your main fuel screw.

My exhaust is 3 inches from the bulkhead back. From the turbo to the bulkhead is 2.5. I'm thinking that might be some of my problem. I'm trying to find someone who will do a full 3inch from the turbo back, but I'm not having much luck.

Not yet. I have the leak tester coming. I think the issue may be something wrong with the gauge. The shop said the waste gate was opening at 20 psi, but the gauge doesn't show 20psi.

Assuming there is no leak and the boost is good, then would you recommend turning down the main fuel?

The exhaust size isn't the issue, with the stock exhaust I was making the exact same power.

I went to a full custom 3in turbo back ( a huge undertaking btw due to the turn radius of the down pipe ) it helped with a little with egts but I was making the same power. And I didn't have your symptoms.

The stock cast turbo output reduces down to about 2.3in fyi.

Egts are directly affected by timing and fuel. Get your baseline first and confirm the boost gauge and reading before throwing money at the problem.

Some further info: I can also easily hit 1300 on the egt gauge but, I have to stand on the pedal and smoke screen the entire highway for 20-30 seconds.

My setup: 200tdi def, stock turbo @ 14psi, boost pin, rebuilt injectors, true 3in v band exhaust no mufflers, 1.6mm lift toming, 1/4 turn more on the smoke/power screw, stock star wheel position, boost pin spacer removed , 35s, 1.4 tcase . And I still regularly get 25-27 mpg. Before the massive tires and with a 1.2 I could get in the 30s if I tried.

It's all about tuning

burlsube said:

I have the leak tester coming. I think the issue may be something wrong with the gauge. The shop said the waste gate was opening at 20 psi, but the gauge doesn't show 20psi.

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Part of me feels like your IP is adding the fuel to compensate for the boost (since that is done via the line off compressor cover) but the engine isn't getting all the air thus overfueling.

If you come down to LI i'll would help you mess with it.

Thanks I appreciate it. It would be a long slow ride at this point. I wish I had access to a trailer. Maybe it would be epic RURR.

How do you correct the issue you noted above?

burlsube said:

How do you correct the issue you noted above?

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Fix boost leak(s)

Got it. The tester should be here any day. I'll let you know if i find any.

burlsube said:

Got it. The tester should be here any day. I'll let you know if i find any.

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Cool. Let me know. I am confident together we can figure out whats going on and get that thing running properly. Before Land Rovers I spent years assisting diagnosing issues with all kinds of shoddily built turbo cars. Boost leaks are extremely common and often overlooked. Once we know that, we can move on.

Was the new IP installed before, after, or at the same time as the new turbo?

Do you have access to a mighty vac type device that can apply pressure with a gauge? I would love to put one on the wastegate actuator port to actually verify what pressure that thing opens up at.




For boost leak tester you bought something like this? (Home depot special)



http://www.bigfuelgarage.com/2016/06/01/make-your-own-boost-leak-tester-with-spare-parts/

The new IP was installed after the VNT turbo was put in. The original IP was missing the spring under the diaphragm and someone had added a weird spring return on the front of the pump to manage some issues with idle adjustment backing out. So I just swapped it out.

The EGTs have always been higher than I like, but since I had to move the probe from post turbo to pre turbo, I now have an accurate reading.

I just purchased the Mightyvac pump and a boost leak tester.

I was going to test it this weekend. The VNT wastegate actuator is in a different location than the stock Garrett turbo, but I should be able to see the arm move fine. If the waste gate moves fine, then I was going to dive in and see why there is a discrepancy between the gauge reading and what the turbo is producing. I have done on a little research that notes that sometimes the VNT vanes can get stuck which can lead to issues.

The boost leak tester seems straightforward.

I also got a 200tdi timing kit, so I might give that a go to see if I can at least verify that the car is timed correctly. In my set up it looks like I'll need to drain some of the cooling system to get enough room to work.

Thanks again for all the help. This is probably a 101 course for you and others - but I guess we all start somewhere.

burlsube said:

Thanks again for all the help. This is probably a 101 course for you and others - but I guess we all start somewhere.

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Eh I wouldn't say that. I am happy to help and curious as to what the issue is. Always new things to learn.

Well I goofed on the boost leak tester. I should have ordered the next size down. So I'm in the process of swapping that out this weekend.

I also tested the wastegate. From what I can tell the arm isn't moving until 15ish psi. I was under the impression there would be some movement from the arm at about 6-8 and movement would max out at 20 when it hits the stop screw.

Apologies for the Blair witch quality

Looks like the video didn't come through

https://youtu.be/ohraTEC5Ww8

So maybe everything is fine in that regard. If you want to turn the boost up get a boost controller or adjust the arm on the turbo.

Fully open at 25 using the MightyVac