The New Defender

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
OK, so I'm sure you've seen the pics. Let's discuss this thing.


First, let's all release that sliver of hope we had that they would do what Jeep has done, and somehow twisted the laws of physics and/or the EPA laws, and are still building a vehicle that looks very much like a 1988 Jeep, in 2018. We all knew it would not be a real replacement for our NAS-ROW vehicles, but we all had a bit of hope left.


landrover_011.jpg


On the other hand, I think it could be worse. In fact, the worst thing about it, on the surface, is that they seem to have killed off two iconic vehicles to make this one. Even if it is successful (and I believe it will be) they killed the Discovery, and the Defender in order to build this. From a heritage sense, history sense, and even from common sense (when you look at the line-up of vehicles they currently offer) it makes not much sense. I'm not sure how long ago it was, but some months ago it dawned on me that the new Defender would really just be a reworked LR4 with a new name. The other option would be a reworked DC100, but that seemed.... out of place... for now.


Whatever. This is it. As much as we are going to see for a few months at least. So now let's live with it and make observations based on what we see here, not on what could have been.

  • In general, it looks like a good vehicle. Has some interesting design cues, etc...
  • We know for a fact that the off road abilities of these new vehicles is very good. They are not rock climbers, but what percentage of us do that anyway? This will probably be the best they offer.
  • Considering that if the LR4 had diesel in the USA, I would consider it seriously as a certified used replacement for my wife's Mercedes in the next two or three years, this new Defender might actually be something she would look at. I might actually consider one of these for my driveway in the future.
  • Take a look at the photo.... LHD, and when you look closely at the driver/passenger positions, do you notice anything? To me, the thing looks huge. And it occurred to me that there is something going on with that leading edge roof line. It looks like an Alucab or Dormobile roof top! I think the real roof line is going to be a staggered slope like the Disco/Defenders had.
  • Considering that this is supposed to be made into SWB, some kind of two door version, pick-up version, etc.... things really could get interesting. Imagine this with a proper camper canopy back.
  • If this is sold as just another SUV, relying on the badge/name for it's main feature, it will not do so well. But if they have managed to incorporate some slick innovations like you see in vehicles like the Honda Element, various mini-vans, and other vehicles that are meant to be camped in from the factory, I could see this vehicle selling like free Crabby Patties.
  • The roof line in the rear seems to have something going on.
  • What's up with the hood latches? Real? or just for the test mule?
  • What size tires do you think you could put on?
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I'm betting that not only does it have a sloped roof, but that it is actually ribbed. Almost certain that the front edge is fake. I won't bet, but I'd not be surprised if the bonnet is a fake as well. That is, the side edges will come down, not up, as seen in these photos.
 

Landy_Andy

Well-known member
Bonnet, roof cover & boxes below the door windows all to hid the body lines. Just look for the duct tape sealing up the gaps.
 

FlyersFan76

Well-known member
Whatever magazine drew this picture over 3 years ago made a pretty good guess.


Or Land Rover did a pretty good job of making whatever is under that tarp to look like that picture.
 

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FlyersFan76

Well-known member
OK, so I'm sure you've seen the pics. Let's discuss this thing.


First, let's all release that sliver of hope we had that they would do what Jeep has done, and somehow twisted the laws of physics and/or the EPA laws, and are still building a vehicle that looks very much like a 1988 Jeep, in 2018. We all knew it would not be a real replacement for our NAS-ROW vehicles, but we all had a bit of hope left.


landrover_011.jpg


On the other hand, I think it could be worse. In fact, the worst thing about it, on the surface, is that they seem to have killed off two iconic vehicles to make this one. Even if it is successful (and I believe it will be) they killed the Discovery, and the Defender in order to build this. From a heritage sense, history sense, and even from common sense (when you look at the line-up of vehicles they currently offer) it makes not much sense. I'm not sure how long ago it was, but some months ago it dawned on me that the new Defender would really just be a reworked LR4 with a new name. The other option would be a reworked DC100, but that seemed.... out of place... for now.


Whatever. This is it. As much as we are going to see for a few months at least. So now let's live with it and make observations based on what we see here, not on what could have been.

  • In general, it looks like a good vehicle. Has some interesting design cues, etc...
  • We know for a fact that the off road abilities of these new vehicles is very good. They are not rock climbers, but what percentage of us do that anyway? This will probably be the best they offer.
  • Considering that if the LR4 had diesel in the USA, I would consider it seriously as a certified used replacement for my wife's Mercedes in the next two or three years, this new Defender might actually be something she would look at. I might actually consider one of these for my driveway in the future.
  • Take a look at the photo.... LHD, and when you look closely at the driver/passenger positions, do you notice anything? To me, the thing looks huge. And it occurred to me that there is something going on with that leading edge roof line. It looks like an Alucab or Dormobile roof top! I think the real roof line is going to be a staggered slope like the Disco/Defenders had.
  • Considering that this is supposed to be made into SWB, some kind of two door version, pick-up version, etc.... things really could get interesting. Imagine this with a proper camper canopy back.
  • If this is sold as just another SUV, relying on the badge/name for it's main feature, it will not do so well. But if they have managed to incorporate some slick innovations like you see in vehicles like the Honda Element, various mini-vans, and other vehicles that are meant to be camped in from the factory, I could see this vehicle selling like free Crabby Patties.
  • The roof line in the rear seems to have something going on.
  • What's up with the hood latches? Real? or just for the test mule?
  • What size tires do you think you could put on?


I was thinking the same about the dormobile roof top. Kind of like this truck.


http://static.loaded4x4.com.au/wp-c...A_110_Defender_with_Portale_Axles-850x668.jpg



A staggered rood line is definitely possible. The old Defender kind of had it also just not as pronounced as the original Disco's.




BTW, This new truck better have round headlights or at least headlights that have a round beam.
 

copleymotorcars

Well-known member
defender in name only.

there are obvious "cues" taken from the defender - wheel arch shape (although now sheetmetal instead of plastic), shaded windshield outline to appear as the original, a few familiar angles. but way, way too much "design". the defender was never about design. more like, architecture.

the ethos is gone. long, long gone. this will appeal to would-be soccer mom wrangler buyers who find it too truckish and low end.

with regards to this specific model shown, i think that is definitely a convertible with a camo cover. (i refuse to call it a soft top as its a much different thing). if i had to guess further, its a 4 door "D90" convertible variant. i highly, highly doubt we will see a true 2 door D90. just bigger and smaller 4 doors.

the hood latches are just to hold down the piece of camo that is disguising the hood design (probably a large one piece but with raised "triangular" shaped center section to mimic the original.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I'm not sure about it being a convertible, but you could be right. I think this is a LWB four door, and that a SWB 'two-door' will be in the configuration we see in the FJ Cruiser.

And the hood latches/bonnet thing -- I think you are correct on this also. When I was looking at it last night, it seemed apparent that the high edges were fake, and now I'm thinking that they will go back to the wing/bonnet configuration. The bonnet will be a center based, Puma bulge type thing, the high edges will be removed, and we will see a flat-ish type of sides to the bonnet area over the wheel arches.

One thing I think is interesting as well is that when you examine the rear end, you'll notice that there is a distinct lack of a true bumper. Or at least a bumper profile. It makes me wonder what type of aftermarket bumper could be added on top of the stock, to carry a spare tire, for instance.

I agree, this is not a replacement for the Defender in the way that the new Jeeps are a true replacement for the old Jeeps. But I have to admit I do kind of like what I'm imagining I'm seeing, and considering that I would have an LR4 if they sold diesel options....... The wife and I will need to at least do a test drive to see what we think. But I'm not selling the Series or Defender for this, that's for sure.
 

copleymotorcars

Well-known member
based on the brand's past (lack of) success with "coupe" configuration vehicles, i really doubt any 2 door unless it is promoted as a limited production (badge numbers, anyone?). the four door configuration is going to be the only money maker for this vehicle.

on bumpers, note theres no front bumper either! take a look at how the bumpers disappeared from LR4--->Disco 5. nothing to even step on on the back if you are securing something to the rack.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
From another angle, it appears like the entire roof, and everything back of the rear passenger door to the cargo door is plywood.

And something was bugging me about the car, and then I realized that the flat rear side windows are missing -- it can't even pretend to be a Defender replacement without alpine windows, and without those little rear windows on each side of the cargo door.
 

FlyersFan76

Well-known member
From another angle, it appears like the entire roof, and everything back of the rear passenger door to the cargo door is plywood.

And something was bugging me about the car, and then I realized that the flat rear side windows are missing -- it can't even pretend to be a Defender replacement without alpine windows, and without those little rear windows on each side of the cargo door.


That the same thing about the Hummer H2 and H3.


On the H2 they put "vents" which kind of made it work but those rear windows on the Hummer H1 wagon really added to the design much like the Defender.


Maybe LR will do something like that.
 

rocky

NAS-ROW Addict
I don't see this as my "cuppa tea" as they say back in Blighty, but looking at the rear suspension, it looks to be the same design if not parts as the Discovery Sport.

Look at the suspension arms. The rear diff carrier in the "defender" is different.
 

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RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Well... I mean...... If they just called it a Discovery, the entire brand would be looking to get back on the right track.
 

rovercolorado

Well-known member
based on the brand's past (lack of) success with "coupe" configuration vehicles, i really doubt any 2 door unless it is promoted as a limited production (badge numbers, anyone?). the four door configuration is going to be the only money maker for this vehicle.

on bumpers, note theres no front bumper either! take a look at how the bumpers disappeared from LR4--->Disco 5. nothing to even step on on the back if you are securing something to the rack.


Even the Jeep Wrangler that still has a 2 door variant sells way less than the unlimited 4 door model. 2 to 1 based on allpar https://www.allpar.com/cars/production/wrangler.html Many say this is the go to site for such data. Since JLR does like special models and limited badges and such I would figure the 4 door model released first and 2 door being special editions and maybe even soft top to sell at a premium. Everyone knew this would be based on some current platform so zero surprise from the drivetrain point of view. The amount of heavy cladding clearly makes me wonder what it will look like but it's clearly more square than the other current offerings and they are making it look very LR4 on purpose IMHO. I think it will sell well if it's square and has a basic look to mimic the Defender/Series of old. Just look at the news of the new/old Bronco square is back in vogue.
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
I am only interested in a 4 door personally. I HOPE it is worth considering. Otherwise I may look at the Chevy Bison or Jeep. I’ll be ready for a new truck in 2020...
 

FlyersFan76

Well-known member
I would only go for a 4 door as well. Convertible 4-door though probably not as this will be my daily driver and company car.



Sometimes I think why would anyone buy a hard top wrangler but then they might be the same buyer as me. Need it as a daily in the Northeast.


Plus I already have a convertible and want to continue to own it unless someone really wow's me with a offer.
 

1of40

Well-known member
Just got back from the Mid Atlantic Rally, great event btw, and JLR sent a driving instructor to the event with a 518hp RRS. Nice guy who says they’ve all stopped worrying about if and when it will debut and that spy shots are not likely anything real.
 
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