Tithonus Paint

[WBSurfer]

I'm planning a refresh of paint on the Tithonus and looking for helpful insight. Some things I know already are:
-not wise to strip this paint as it's a daunting and near impossible task to strip nato paint unless you have unlimited funds and time
-painting mod's or Tith's might not be many peoples cup of tea
-if doing a complete teardown and high end paint job the likely best way to go would be to replace panels, and body parts (all of which I'm not doing)

In short, I'm looking for a good paint source to get the right color paint, tips if anyone has painted a Tithonus before (not doing a restoration but merely just a refresh), and any other helpful insight that might be useful during this process. I've got paint experience but not planning on making this a huge deal, just want to sand and spray if that's possible with the recommended paint.

Cheers and thanks in advance!

 

[roverrange]

Interested in doing the exact same thing. Would like to be able to paint interior (floor panels etc.) and then do the exterior later. Ideally they match NATO green. Have read plenty of information about how difficult it is to get an exact match.

 

[nas90tdi]

Go to Sherwin Williams and ask for their commercial direct to metal enamel. Bring something like a vent flap or similar that has not had sun hitting it and they can match it. I sprayed my exterior but all the interior is painted with a small roller and brush. It is super slick and you can beat on it with a hammer.

Mine is satin but if you get flat it will match your Nato Green. If you know someone with a commercial account use it and the cost is around 50.00 gallon instead of 125.00ish.

Not all Sherwin Williams stores sell the commercial coatings. There is a difference despite what the paint store salesman will tell you about their other paints. Their commercail products are outstanding. I have used them on my wooden boat, trucks, various other things and they hold up to a beating.

I went that route after months of searching for a way to get actual Nato paint. I have been very happy with the result.

 

[roverrange]

What did you do to prep the surface interior and exterior?

 

[WBSurfer]

Go to Sherwin Williams and ask for their commercial direct to metal enamel. Bring something like a vent flap or similar that has not had sun hitting it and they can match it. I sprayed my exterior but all the interior is painted with a small roller and brush. It is super slick and you can beat on it with a hammer.

Mine is satin but if you get flat it will match your Nato Green. If you know someone with a commercial account use it and the cost is around 50.00 gallon instead of 125.00ish.

Not all Sherwin Williams stores sell the commercial coatings. There is a difference despite what the paint store salesman will tell you about their other paints. Their commercail products are outstanding. I have used them on my wooden boat, trucks, various other things and they hold up to a beating.

I went that route after months of searching for a way to get actual Nato paint. I have been very happy with the result.

That is excellent info and exactly what I was looking for in a response. I think this thread could shape up to prove very helpful to many MOD/Tithonus owners looking to tidy up their trucks a bit. Thanks for the tip on getting up with someone with a commercial account as well since that saves 75% on the paint alone! Obviously I am loaded with questions and was going to just PM you for more details but keeping in this thread is probably a good idea for others that may have interest. I checked out your truck in the registry and you did a great job. So here are some follow up questions:

1. Regarding prep work: If you can remember and be as specific as possible, we all know that the nato paint is nothing we want to strip unless doing a high end paint job, but what all did you do for prep. Did you sand it all the way down or just give it a once over with what grit sandpaper and then have at it.

2. I'll likely just try and get it paint matched as close as I can but also curious after you have worked with that Sherwin paint so much, if another shade of green was used, for instance Willow green used on NAS 90's, do you think it would cover well.

3. You used satin paint. How many coats did you end up doing and did you use any clear coating or sealant or is that not needed for this type of paint.

4. After completing your paint job, is there anything you would have done differently or would advise based on your experience.

5. A lot of MOD's were plentiful loaded with bondo so I'm curious if you ran into much of that in your prep and if so did you have much new filler to add for other problem areas.

6. I noticed you removed your cage and all capping for galvy. (very nice). Did you end up taking the side storage compartment covers off when you sprayed the outside and do them separately or just paint them while on the truck.

7. Did you build a spray booth for your project or where did you do your painting.

8. Most MOD's had the windscreen rubber painted over, vent gaskets painted over, and all plastic bit painted over on the exterior. Did you end up just replacing most all of that or were you able resolve those issue another way.

9. Did you replace all your hinges or bring them for media blast and powder coating. Curious because I usually just replace all hinges but since this project for me is not a build project and just a simple tidying up, I'm curious to see how all those hinges would turn out after a powder coating. Trying to keep this simple and low cost and not trying to replace a lot on this one. I will be replacing some things for sure but not trying to get carried away like I usually do....lol.

That should do it for now. I should also point out that for me and my paint job on this truck, I'm not trying to make this perfect by any means. I want to improve the horrible chipping paint all over everything so keep this in mind with comments. I understand that there is a right way and a half ass way to approach painting but this is an MOD and for me it will always be just that. I have enough other defender build projects going that are absorbing all my funds and this isn't a build for me. Simple a refresh and tidying up.

Thanks in advance for all responses.

Cheers!

 

[Uncle Douglas]

For military paint I had a local industrial paint manufacturer make me a gallon. Told him I want the porous texture and flat properities of the seat box lid I took him to match. I have the formulation label and they will ship-http://www.davispaint.com/DavisIndustrialProductLine.aspx

As far as prep goes on a military truck, many of these were painted with a brush.
You are asking about color change prep work. What I have found is if you want a metalic two stage paint job,like the willow green you ask about, a military truck is a poor starting point. The cost of the body work/ prep to get a typical military truck to a point where it is worthy of the cost of materials for a quality two stage metalic paint job typically makes little economic sense. IE we replace both front fenders, the hood/bonnet, usually the rear tailgate and often a quarter panel, rather than pay the body man all the hours to try and get a panel straight enough where all the imperfections of military life
don't stick out like blaze orange on a hunter in an otherwise all natural forest. Buying new panels makes better economic sense and then end product is superior to body work full of waves and filler. We have the front wings painted in pieces so the gap where they fasten is a clean line, otherwise the gap is filled with paint and clear and I don't like that look. Means a couple more hours, but worth it.
Given how the military loves to cake the paint on, the hardest points to get a nice job around are the soft top hooks down the tub sides, and the edges around the capings.
There are two ways to get a good job in those areas, drill out the rivets and remove everything so it can be sanded or media blast.
We just had an x mod 90 painted (twice) a range rover firenze red (customer selection) which is a metalic/pearl red color.https://www.google.com/search?q=fir...9j69i57j0l4.5836j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

We have a tithonus truck about to be painted bonatti grey metalic. Rather than spend hours pulling the capings (makes it tough to transport a tub when its weakened) and paying the body shop to sand it all smooth we are going to have these guys come media blast the entire body (already disassembled/galvanizing the chassis) on saw horses and take the painter bare metal/blank canvas. http://americanblasters.com/

Just my .02 the cost of materials is all over the place on automotive paints. You get the finish you pay for. The truck I reference above was first sprayed with PPG and I wasn't happy with it so had that ground off and another painter sprayed it with dupont. He gave me the option of going with the Chroma grade and the chromaclear and the clear coat shine/gloss is second to none. If you are spending close to $2k just for the materials to paint the truck, don't skimp on prep, the better the paint job, the more it will reveal if you do. http://www2.dupont.com/Coating_Solutions/en_US/assets/downloads/tds/TDS_ChromaPremier_FL.pdf

 

[roverrange]

Talked to local SW and they said they can make the DTM enamel in gloss or semi gloss but not satin. You were able to get it in satin, right?

 

[nas90tdi]

Just went and looked at what I have. You are absolutely correct, mine is semi-gloss and now I remember having that discussion with the commercial coating guy about it. He couldn't provide me a satin he felt as comfortable with.
Answers to your questions:

Prep work wasn't bad. Stripped everything off the truck and scraped any of the thick buildup around edges out so it wouldn't lift ( a couple of spots still did, but very minimal) Sanded the entire thing with my DA 120 first and then 320 grit I did not go all the way down, just feathered all the edges good. Biggest area to work on where where the rivets come through the tub. They had been building paint up for years around those.

The commercial coating will cover nearly anything. They are an extremely high solids paint made for industrial environments with harsh conditions and minimal prep work.

My truck is one coat no clear.

As far as doing things different. At this point on the Tithonus I would repeat exactly what I did. I have painted several trucks in the past that I completely disassembled, but for the MOD truck, I am perfectly happy with the result. It is never going to be perfect without replacing body panels, and that isn't my intent on this one.

I did run into some bondo around the headlights ,on one wing and on a door. Some of the Bondo made no sense at all, once I sanded it the panel was fine. The wing however had taken a hit. I scraped out most of the filler and refilled with epoxy filler.( Big fan of the West Systems epoxy.)

I did not remover the locker doors, I wanted the hinges and all painted as one.

I sprayed it on a still day in the driveway. I was super lazy about then, I had never tried it, but the SW guys said the coating was designed to be sprayed outdoors and would work fine. It did.

I replaced all my rubber, so it wasn't a factor. I just installed new when I was done.

I replaced all my hinges, so they were a new paint job.

I was in the same boat you are. I resisted the urge to do what I normally do and disassemble and rebuild everything. I have actually been really happy with the result. But, It is definitely not a show room truck. But, based on all the comments I get on it, everyone thinks it is fully restored. I have touched every square inch of it ,so know every flaw. So, I am probably more critical. Plus I have seen a boatload of Defenders and most people in a parking lot may be standing as close to one as they ever have.

Doug called it exactly its all in what you are willing to spend time and money on. I don't view these MOD trucks as worth the money for an expensive paint job unless you are media blasting the entire thing and replacing bad panels. At the end of the day you are painting over something that came in a 55 gallon drum and has been sprayed brushed and rolled on at various points to keep the truck painted by an 18 year old Private somewhere.

Good luck in whatever direction you decide to go.

 

[nas90tdi]

Just for a point of reference ,the bulkhead below the bonnet lip is painted with a brush, above sprayed.

I sprayed with a slightly low pressure. I knew the paint would never be new car slick, so slightly low pressure gives you the tiniest bit of texture and hides a world of sins in the old paint job underneath. Also gave it less sheen to get closer to the mil finish without the problem of everything soaking in that the flat gives you.

 

[lrnasd90]

I have seen nas90tdi's truck in person and it looks great. It looks a thousand times better than it did when he got it. That paint is well suited to a MOD truck. Plus you can't be the price.

 

[nas90tdi]

So true, except for the big scratch we put down the side of it when you were here.

 

[LostChord]

Then there's these here options

thanks Raub

thanks rivermike

pics are giant....I have no idea why

 

[WBSurfer]

Thanks for all the helpful info. Precisely what I needed to hear on all accounts. A few additional follow up questions nas90tdi:

1. What type of gun did you use? Basic hvlp or something different?
2. I would imagine this paint to be pretty heavy and thick, did you have to thin it to spray and if so do you recall your mix ratio?
3. Regarding color change: When I made that comment about possibly a slight color change, I wasn't referring to going metallic or changing from the suggested SW paint. I was mainly wondering if you think if I went a slight different green (similar to the willow green on the nas, not a complete change like red or blue) do you think it would cover well.
4. You mentioned you ended up using semi gloss. When I think semi gloss and gloss paint I generally think of my trim in my house on crown molding, baseboards, etc. That shine is relatively bright. Curious if this semi gloss ends up on the truck as being very "shiny".

On a side note, shit, I started the tear down on the Tith a couple nights ago and this is a test of focus for me without a doubt. As I prep for paint and take bits off I just can't help thinking like usual, "since I'm taking this off and doing this, why don't I just do this and that." Waaaaaaay too easy with an mod to have those feelings since I'm so used to just rebuilding everything. MUST STAY FOCUSED on the fact that this is an MOD and not another build.....lol. I think for me it will help to set a short time frame on completion and stick to that plan. Tear it down, slam it with paint, put it back together.


Cheers!

 

[nas90tdi]

Basic HVLP
It's a very thick and heavy paint. I did not thin what I used on the body, it was part of how I achieved that tiny bit if texture. I am not actually sure how to describe what I did. We aren't talking bedliner texture, I shudder to think. It is nearly indiscernible but it breaks the sheen and hides things well.

I did paint one of my wheels as it had been NATO Green and Sand alternately during it's life and was peeling, so I blasted it and repainted. This I did thin to make sure it is slick like my NATO green Wolf wheels that I didn't paint.

Yes, I think it would cover fine with a color change. One word of advice, do not use a etching primer on any spots that you sand through to bare. I discovered that the NATO paint does not seem to like the etching primer much and kept lifting edges. I assume it was getting between the layers and breaking the bond. I had to re sand the tub sides around the rivets and a few other places because the leading edge lifted slightly.

The sheen is not super shiny like you are thinking. It has some shine to it, but it's minimal.

I remember Rivermike posting that truck. Super sharp MOD. Not a fan of glossy flares ,but the color came out nice. You can still see the military life in that one though. Especially right above the rear wheel well. It's just hard to overcome all the things that happen to a military truck during it's life.

I will post a picture of the truck in the sun and the wheel. Might help you see the difference. The wheel color is nearly indiscernible from the Wolf wheels that are on the truck that I didn't paint. I found that NATO green is a very subjective color. Depends on where I looked what color it was on my truck, but what I did matched the wheels really well, and that was probably the closest to the factory paint on my truck.

Fortunately the Rover chrome has toned down now. It was pretty damn shiny at first.

 

[roverrange]

The material sheet for the DTM enamel says no need to thin it (confirmed with SW) but would probably help make it go on smoother.

Anyone put together a list of replacement seals need for a tithonus or do I need to go through the diagrams and find each part number?

Do OEM hinges or TD5 hinges seem to be the way to go?

 

[nas90tdi]

It will make it smoother. But, that is correct. Thinning isn't needed.
I used OEM hinges but that is really just a choice. Most use Series vent flap seals, they are much better then the Defender seals.

 

[roverrange]

Trying to find part numbers for door seals, tailgate seals, series vent flap seals, any other seals I may come across while disassembling the tithonus.

 

[Topperkenobi]

After reading this thread, you guys make me feel that I can do this job by myself.
Im ordering the different parts needed and the paint.
Did anybody come with the right numbers for the different seals?
Would really appreciate if somebody can share them with me.

JP

 

[Mdubs]

After reading this thread, you guys make me feel that I can do this job by myself.
Im ordering the different parts needed and the paint.
Did anybody come with the right numbers for the different seals?
Would really appreciate if somebody can share them with me.

JP

Same with me. This thread is awesome. I'd like to do an AA Yellow, anyone have any idea if Sherwin can do that color in the type you were talking about? I realize it will show dents, etc. but my other option was a wrap.

 

[roverrange]

Maybe we can start to compile the list of all seals needed. Just list the ones you figure out with part numbers.