The LED headlight thread

[Red90]

Vermonster. Internet police force.

Every single modification you do to your trucks in the USA is illegal. The exemption that allows the import is based on the vehicles never being modified from original spec.

Try and relax and you decide for yourself what you want to do and let others worry about themselves.

 

[The_Vermonster]

Try and relax and you decide for yourself what you want to do and let others worry about themselves.

Your talking about something that affects other people. This isn't you deciding to paint your vehicle neon green. Its the same reason I get pissed when idiots put red halos on their jeep headlights. It's illegal, dangerous, and downright selfish. You put everyone else on the road at risk for your own financial gain.

I know I'm not going to change your mind. You seem to have already backed away from claiming they're legal. But don't get upset when you get called out.

Every single modification you do to your trucks in the USA is illegal. The exemption that allows the import is based on the vehicles never being modified from original spec.

That is just false. I'm not importing my vehicle. I own it, it is titled and registered. As long as I can still pass all state inspections and emissions, I can do whatever I want.

 

[RBBailey]

https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Safety/Documents/NHTSA_Headlight_Glare_Report.pdf

 

[Red90]

Nope. You are breaking the law by modifying after import. They don?t enforce the law but you are breaking it regardless.

You must be going around stopping everyone from all of those illegal and unsafe engine swaps.

With respect to this topic I?m not advising anything unsafe so you can relax. The light produced still meets the DOT parameters. It has just not be tested for such. Perhaps try and open your mind and look at the light patterns of the lights I?ve suggested.

For what it is worth the DOT light regulation is a piece of crap and does nothing to prevent unsafe lights. Have you read it? I have. It is a pile of stinking crap written while dinosaurs roamed the earth.

 

[RBBailey]

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/auto-accessory-laws.html#

 

[Red90]

The rule that prevent changes from original spec is federal not state. The federal exemption allowing the import states that they only hold the exemption while maintaining original spec. Since the states enforce vehicle regulations this federal law is not enforced. But it is still illegal and since the Vermonster is tied to the letter of the law and not the intent he should stop breaking it.

 

[Napalm00]

Let's get back to the LEDs gents

 

[RBBailey]

The way I've always understood the modification laws is that an owner must obey the rules of the road (state) laws, and that the only time in which the Federal law would apply is upon importation, at point of sale (dealership) and maybe, but not for sure, when sold in private in certain circumstances. This is not something that is on any kind of documentation for sale from state to state, or within a state, and except for the importation laws we are all aware of, even from country to country. So I think we are talking about a law that actually applies to the companies that import cars (BMW, LRNA, etc...) and almost exclusively at the original point of sale.

Beside that, the modification laws, as far as I understand, only refer to things that would move the vehicle out of compliance with Federal Safety (crash) standards anyway, which is why you see dealer options on new Toyota Tacomas at the dealer that include 3rd party shock kits, RRTs, 3rd party roof racks, or even turbo charging certain engines, etc.... these things are not illegal as long as they do not modify the vehicle out of the National safety standards.

The headlight issue is a state level law, and at least in the State of Oregon, the lights are supposed to be "white". I would assume this means between a 5000 and 6000 color temperature, or something along those lines.

 

[rocky]

Ding dong!

End of round one...

 

[The_Vermonster]

The NHTSA has been investigating the effects of headlight glare for the last 15 years. They were even at a point where they were going to downgrade the safety rating of cars that produced too much glare. Manufacturers naturally fraught this, and they backed off. But insurance companies are still seeing an upward trend of people reporting that oncoming headlights are blinding them before a crash. I'm sure an insurance company would love an excuse like "illegal modification" to not pay out. If the package doesn't at least say "DOT Compliant" than it isn't worth the few dollars of savings.

As to other modifications, that discussion is probably better suited to a new thread. But that doesn't somehow change anything with headlights.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[O2batsea]

I will go out on a limb here and say that headlight glare is the cause of accidents zero percent. Annoying maybe but incapacitating? no.

 

[rocky]

Headlight glare in the USA is far worse than in Europe.
The US headlight standard requires headlights light up signs in interstates as they are unlit.
Europe lights its interstate signs. Europe E marked headlights have a sharp cut off that stops light glare rising except to brighten sidewalk on the side the car is on.

 

[Red90]

Here is the regulation.... https://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/TP-108-13.pdf You can read the details to understand why it does not prevent glare on other drivers.

 

[Red90]

European regs. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:42014X0614(02)&from=en

You will see the issue from the light charts. Ecode specifies a maximum light amount above horizontal. DOT specifies a MINIMUM up to 10 degrees, with no maximum.

 

[NPT90]

FYI, JW Speaker do heated lens as well.

http://www.jwspeaker.com/products/led-headlights-model-8700-evo-2-db/

~$400 EACH!!

Woof, Personally I don't like the look of them but I am sure they have seen the writing on the wall regarding lense icing.

Also not a fan of the advertisement on the bottom of the lense. Competition is good for the market however!

 

[RBBailey]

I?ve seen three crashes that were at least partially due to being blinded by headlights. Can?t say that I saw the accident reports or anything, but when a guy in a lifted truck is coming at you in the rainy dark with no street lights and he has the blue lightning things bouncing and vibrating with the RPMs and bumps in the road and the car that is in front of me puts the brakes on and I see the driver put his hand up to his eyes and watch him slowly drift off the road....

 

[NPT90]

The point is that they're not options or alternatives. Unless you can show a legal LED retrofit. There is nothing in the US or EU market that is legal for headlights. If you want to put them into off road lights, then I don't think you'll hear a peep out of anyone.

A pair of genuine, un-heated, Truck-lites off Amazon is $314. Stop advocating illegal modifications for the sake of saving a few dollars.

I mean, I obviously these LED bulbs have sidestepped the expense of DOT approval (that alone is worrisome regarding product quality) but I haven't ever tried to do it so I am sure its fraught with inefficiencies when you are trying to bring a product to market. I get the whole 'offroad use only' tag, shit I ran 'offroad' halogens in my OEM housings on my VW because they were slightly brighter (65w if I recall correctly).

I get where Red is coming from, these bulbs are an alternative if you don't want to change your housing (though for most trucks that is probably advisable) and are looking to do a budget re-fit. Honestly any additional light you can get in front of your vehicle (without blinding oncoming traffic) is a worthwhile upgrade for everyones safety.

Personally I chose to go trucklite (well Rigid in my case) for aesthetics, support, and overall output at what I felt was a reasonable price point ($450 for the pair). Having had them on my vehicle for 2 months I would do it again in a heartbeat (having previously installed a relay for the halogens and was still underwhelmed a bit).

I think the noldens are ok, I like the look of them, price is still less than the JW speaker (which I didn't like aesthetically) but support is difficult since several companies supply them at a variety of price points. They are also non-heated which was a non-starter for me.

If I wanted a quick upgrade without having to remove the reflectors I would consider the LED bulbs, however at the price point for a decent set (~$200) I think its a bit short sighted

Coupled with the fact they will likely ice up (a definite pro for keeping halogens and running a relay) makes them less than ideal (again in my opinion).

It's ultimately the end users choice, this threads purpose is to show the options so forum members can make that decision. Sharing my personal experience and logic tree so that others can arrive at a decision is about all I can do to inform others and save them time researching all the options.

To the OP, I hope you find this thread useful if not currently mired down with people quoting regulations (as if it matters in the end).

 

[NPT90]

I?ve seen three crashes that were at least partially due to being blinded by headlights. Can?t say that I saw the accident reports or anything, but when a guy in a lifted truck is coming at you in the rainy dark with no street lights and he has the blue lightning things bouncing and vibrating with the RPMs and bumps in the road and the car that is in front of me puts the brakes on and I see the driver put his hand up to his eyes and watch him slowly drift off the road....

To be fair I have seen people with difficult night vision struggle with bright lights, though they are the same people who leave their high-beams on all the time and drive with one foot on the brake and one foot on the gas. I would guess that those situations are minimal at best. See and be seen are good caveats to follow when choosing lighting for your vehicle. There will always be asshats running their lightbars on the highway or using their fog lights when there is no fog, can't account for human stupidity.

I support any responsible choice in lighting, this thread is good for helping people discern the advantages and disadvantages of the current available options.

 

[NPT90]

I agree with Jeff. I wouldn't mind led if they looked like the stock. The Holden seem to be the best if you were going with led and look good on Adams rig. I stuck with the Ipf housings in e code and ipf bulbs. Good enough but could be much better. The round headlights are so iconic with the Rangies and defender. The led just looks off to me.

IPF thread on jeep site

Some very good output on the IPF housings, at $40 per plus the price of bulbs (seem to be relatively inexpensive for high outputs), and if you need a relay (inexpensive kits run around $100, home made will cost you half that) you can get output like that for around $200.

 

[NPT90]

However, with higher output bulbs (80W/100W) it should be noted you will run closer to 13A/16A of current draw. Trucklites draw 2A/4A respectfully. I couldn't find specs on the heating element draw but I would imagine its marginal given the surface area and size of the heating element. Given that most people are running 60 or 80Amp alternators it may constitute a concern for battery charging or other systems.

If you live in a place that sees ice and snow it should absolutely be a concern, well documented from jeepers that the LEDs can be dangerous in certain conditions:

Moral of the story, you live in a cold place, Halogen or heated LED. LED bulb replacements or LED headlamps without heaters may leave you in a less than ideal situation.

I also advocate running a relay even to LED lights (especially heated) burning a light switch out is equally as dangerous in winter conditions...