TDI Christmas
- Thread starter Uncle Douglas
- Start date
ctflyfish
Well-known member
Bringing an old one up here. It's been a few years since this thread appeared and last commented on. I am curious if everyone continues to be pleased with their VGT turbo upgrades etc... In other "research" I have done, it seems that a great / simple upgrade out of the box is an uprated intercooler and VGT Turbo. I have been looking at the Alisport direct replacements for both on my 200tdi.
Assume this is a no brainer replacement (money aside) given how many folks on this particular thread have done it and the positive responses
Cheers,
Assume this is a no brainer replacement (money aside) given how many folks on this particular thread have done it and the positive responses
Cheers,
My VGT works well. It's nothing life-changing but it's an improvement.
Napalm00
Technical Excellence Contributor
Yeah to add here a VGT or VNT will not increase your top speed. What it will do is make your truck much more drivable around town. Fuel mileage will essentially stay the same.
If your truck isn't super rusty it's a bolt on a affair that can be done in an afternoon.
To get the most out of it tuning the truck will add an extra five to 10% power out of the box from the install.
If your truck isn't super rusty it's a bolt on a affair that can be done in an afternoon.
To get the most out of it tuning the truck will add an extra five to 10% power out of the box from the install.
I found my VNT changes things radically, but exactly like Mr Napalm describes above. I need some IP tuning but the Tdi with the VNT drives much more like a “normal” car where you don’t use a calendar to plan for when the boost comes on. Unfortunately, it has me wanting to change my transfer case advantage of the more available power.
RedWingRoamer
Member
I have been following this thread since its creation by Doug in 2018 and just now got around to refreshing my ~200k KM 300tdi. We started with a rebuild on the injection pump, new injectors, and timing. This alone changed the performance of the truck dramatically. We followed that up with a larger intercooler and VNT turbo which really was the icing on the cake. My 110 is a different animal now. I can keep up with traffic easily. I can drive at 75 mph on decent grades with EGTs maxing out at 470 Celcius. The higher 5th in the Ashcroft R380 combined with the VNT/IP rebuild means I can just cruise in 5th everywhere from 50 up to 75 - no longer searching for gears to get up a hill. As everyone is saying - spend your money on getting the IP/injectors/timing correct then think about the VNT. You won't regret it.
Oh - and Madman EMS 2 installed. I love the data and peace of mind.
Oh - and Madman EMS 2 installed. I love the data and peace of mind.
Eugene.in.ut
Well-known member
Jumping on here to see if anyone has done a setup with a VGT, uprated intercooler, boost pin, fuel spacer, and a manual boost controller? I’m currently gathering the parts to do this altogether along with get the IP tuned and wondering what the combination resulted in?
EGT and boost will also be added.
EGT and boost will also be added.
Napalm00
Technical Excellence Contributor
I've done it expect about 15-20% more power after tuning. Maybe 10-15% less fuel econ. Still a slow ass tractor.
The bulk of the power is down low and your tops speed won't really change.
You prob don't need the manual boost controller with a vnt. It will already be set to 20psi, about as high as you can get safely.with out other ch ages
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Eugene.in.ut
Well-known member
Good to know. Happy with keeping it a slow ass tractor, but would love a little get up and go, especially in Utah’s “hills”.
Trying to decide if a manual boost controller would actually be a bad thing on a VNT. I'm not sure how a standard VNT control diaphragm is tuned. Presumably at low RPM the vanes are closed, then as you build boost they open partially, when you hit the max boost setting, vanes should then be fully open.
With a manual boost controller vanes would remain closed all the way until you hit whatever boost the controller is set for, the controller valve would open and then transmitted boost would then open the vanes completely
Am I thinking about this wrong? Or if I'm thinking about it right, maybe in the real world those middle positions of having vanes partially open never really happen?
With a manual boost controller vanes would remain closed all the way until you hit whatever boost the controller is set for, the controller valve would open and then transmitted boost would then open the vanes completely
Am I thinking about this wrong? Or if I'm thinking about it right, maybe in the real world those middle positions of having vanes partially open never really happen?
Napalm00
Technical Excellence Contributor
In All the standard applications with the exception of these Land Rover conversion units they almost exclusively use vacuum not boost or electromechanical to adjust the vanes.
These Land Rover units for the sake of simplicity use a standard boost actuator. It is the least efficient and actually the most dangerous way of actuating a VNT. Since a boost actuator relies on the boost created the VNT could actually spike an extremely high boost before the actuator has a chance to reorient the vanes. On a normal vnt A vacuum reference signal is used instead of the boost signal that allows for compensation for boost spikes and under boosting.
Since the motors are relatively low power and low RPM it's not a huge deal on a Rover tdi. The manual boost controller will act the same way it does on a standard turbo. It will keep the vanes in the high boost orientation longer allowing for higher boost to be made, again not really needed since the actuator that comes from these guys at Allard/Allisport/turbotechnics is already set to 20psi. The maximum that you would probably want to run on stock head bolts / gasket.
I guess what I'm wondering is how much it affects performance (and maybe turbo longevity?) to be running a manual boost controller plumbed into the circuit. Say the VNT is set "stock" to fully open vanes at 20psi. What's the "stock" vane orientation at 10psi, 15psi? I presume they are not fully closed--certainly on any vacuum/computer controlled VNT vanes open up a fair bit once you get into rpm/throttle range that allows you to build some boost.
But if you plumb in a manual boost controller also set to 20psi (I understand most people would set this higher), the diaphragm is essentially seeing 0psi until you get to 20psi--so vanes stay completely closed until the very end and then slam from closed to open.
A manual boost controller on a wastegated turbo makes a lot more sense to me. It's not altering the mechanics of the turbo quite so much.
But if you plumb in a manual boost controller also set to 20psi (I understand most people would set this higher), the diaphragm is essentially seeing 0psi until you get to 20psi--so vanes stay completely closed until the very end and then slam from closed to open.
A manual boost controller on a wastegated turbo makes a lot more sense to me. It's not altering the mechanics of the turbo quite so much.
Napalm00
Technical Excellence Contributor
Okay I kind of see what you're saying here. Frankly I wouldn't sweat it. My vacuum actuated VNT is moving and blasting to full boost in under a second all the time.
The Land Rover VNTs that are made for TDIs really are kind of a hack job but they work well
The Land Rover VNTs that are made for TDIs really are kind of a hack job but they work well
So my setup is all tuned now with Uncle D’s help. I’m running a 300tdi with the Allisport turbo, radiator, double-core intercooler, and exhaust. As-installed it was more powerful than stock but wasn’t very drivable because the revs would wind quickly but there wasn’t enough fuel to go further. With minor tweaking to the boost diaphragm and the fuel screw, the truck transformed into an aspirating beast. If you’re not ginger with the accelerator then it gets a little smoky, but the exhaust velocity is awesome, it ”braaappps” like an Austin Healy, and goes better than my v8 trucks ever did. I’m over the moon. Now the limiting factor is the transfer case and I’ll replace that when I get around to it.
MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
Turbo Technics makes the Turbo that both Allisport and BAS market. Take your pick, it really comes down to shipping. Ive personally found Bell Auto Sports to be more responsive so that was my route. Both, in the end, are quality outfits.
to me on the 200tdi, I would do it again and again if I didn’t already have one.
in regards to manual controllers, I really need the adjustment To dial in EGT at altitude in order to max out performance. EGT’s/lean/rich is affected and although tuning the fuel screw is the proper way to dial that in, boost is a component. You can make the similar adjustments by lengthening/shortening the turbo actuator rod, but a dial is butter.
last comment is if you DO go the VNT turbo, an EGT gauge is a must, not a desire.
to me on the 200tdi, I would do it again and again if I didn’t already have one.
in regards to manual controllers, I really need the adjustment To dial in EGT at altitude in order to max out performance. EGT’s/lean/rich is affected and although tuning the fuel screw is the proper way to dial that in, boost is a component. You can make the similar adjustments by lengthening/shortening the turbo actuator rod, but a dial is butter.
last comment is if you DO go the VNT turbo, an EGT gauge is a must, not a desire.