Recommended power train conversion for my 200tdi 109 CSW

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Robbiekb

Member
Hey all,
I've owned my 109 CSW for about 8 years and am finally realizing that it won't be driven much in its current state.

Currently, I have a 200tdi mated to series gearbox , roamerdrive and series transfer case.

My goal is a vehicle that's less tiring to drive. For that, I'm thinking about switching drivetrain with all options being considered.

I already have a R2.8 in my 90 and enjoy that as my trail rig. The 109 would become a camping truck and replace a Disco 1 that I use today.

So it's a blank canvas. What would you recommend? Rover v8- ZF - lt230 or some other combination ?
 
evilfij

evilfij

Well-known member
jymmiejamz said:
A Rover V8/ZF/LT230 would probably be the most economical. I would recommend GEMS fuel injection.
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Same, but 14CUX injection, although the V8 is not the best fit in a series.

What is not drivable about it? The transmission/overdrive? The 5 speed swap is supposedly pretty nice. I find my 200Tdi 110 to be quite drivable (minus the fact it won’t go into 4th easily, but I have a stubby R380 to swap in). That and some insulation, parabolic, good shocks etc make a series nicer.
 
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jymmiejamz

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
evilfij said:
Same, but 14CUX injection, although the V8 is not the best fit in a series.

What is not drivable about it? The transmission/overdrive? The 5 speed swap is supposedly pretty nice. I find my 200Tdi 110 to be quite drivable (minus the fact it won’t go into 4th easily, but I have a stubby R380 to swap in). That and some insulation, parabolic, good shocks etc make a series nicer.
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With GEMS fuel injection you can run a p38 timing cover which is much thinner than any 14cux timing cover.
 
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Robbiekb

Member
What's great about a Series Land Rover is how quirky and manual they are. Unfortunately, if I want to keep this one, it needs to be a vehicle I can take the family on some fairly long trips. It's a real challenge to dampen and mute the noise and vibration from a Diesel, even with the softer engine mounts my 109 vibrates like a paint shaker! For transmission, having to ride the clutch so much in traffic and on Seattle's hills is also tiresome and excludes my wife from driving it. I do have an LT77 I could bolt on but was thinking of going automatic.
Ultimately, the drivetrain and suspension package that Rover put together for the RRC and Discovery works so much better in every conceivable scenario it got me thinking about a retro mod and using a new drivetrain to make the vehicle more family friendly. I know that Timm Cooper likes to use LS's in his builds, I've also heard about a Chevy 292 swap. Googling brings up a lot of info on swapping drivetrains into 110's and 90's , not so much on Series trucks.
 
Robert

Robert

Well-known member
he means bosch timing cover, not p38. a gems p38 timing cover is identical to disco and defender cover
 
evilfij

evilfij

Well-known member
Honestly cramming a V8 and ZF into a series is not easy from what I understand as the ZF is long.
 
erover82

erover82

Well-known member
Turning any farm truck into a highway cruiser is an uphill battle. You end up having to reengineer everything. Have you considered trailering it? More comfortable and safer than any old Landy will ever be. Then, after you get the monotonous highway miles over with, you get to unload and enjoy it for what it is.
 
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pfshoen

Well-known member
200 Tdi Series conversions are popular because they're relatively straightforward and suit the vehicle.
Scotty converted a lot of Series to Chevy 6's. Robert Davis has a lot of Series experience with them as well. They are hard on transmissions. I'd reco the 235 over the bigger motors. Scotty eventually dropped the 6's in favor of the Iron Duke. Not sure a 6 is a big improvement over a 200Tdi, but it def would be quieter and smoother.
A Stage 1 V8 conversion using early RR tech might be more practical since it's more copy than create. And it would still qualify as "factory."
An auto trans may be a bridge too far.
Agree with erover82. I don't believe there's anything you can do to a Series (or a Defender for that matter) that will make it into as nice a car as a Disco. The reason the Disco got built was to meet the need for upgrades you describe. A RR LWB would give a bit more room if needed.
I've run a IIA 109 Carawagon with a Chevy 6 for a long time. Preparing to sell it as I'm building a camper out of a 127 V8 LT85 ambulance. Would love an auto trans, rear disc brakes and a/c, but it's already a big step up in tech over a Series.
 
mgreenspan

mgreenspan

Founding Member
Maybe just use a long stick lt-77 with the Rover V8 and you’ll be fine. Pretty sure the long stick lt-77 and a Rover V8 is a stock drop in for a 4 cylinder Defender frame with all mounts so I can’t imagine it being much work with your 200 tdi series gearbox combo. If you want comfort for driving a V8 gas over diesel anything is the way.
 
evilfij

evilfij

Well-known member
pfshoen said:
200 Tdi Series conversions are popular because they're relatively straightforward and suit the vehicle.
Scotty converted a lot of Series to Chevy 6's. Robert Davis has a lot of Series experience with them as well. They are hard on transmissions. I'd reco the 235 over the bigger motors. Scotty eventually dropped the 6's in favor of the Iron Duke. Not sure a 6 is a big improvement over a 200Tdi, but it def would be quieter and smoother.
A Stage 1 V8 conversion using early RR tech might be more practical since it's more copy than create. And it would still qualify as "factory."
An auto trans may be a bridge too far.
Agree with erover82. I don't believe there's anything you can do to a Series (or a Defender for that matter) that will make it into as nice a car as a Disco. The reason the Disco got built was to meet the need for upgrades you describe. A RR LWB would give a bit more room if needed.
I've run a IIA 109 Carawagon with a Chevy 6 for a long time. Preparing to sell it as I'm building a camper out of a 127 V8 LT85 ambulance. Would love an auto trans, rear disc brakes and a/c, but it's already a big step up in tech over a Series.
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Would love to see pics of the carawagon. As far as rear discs on a sals, it’s simple, just expensive for parts, and an auto is an easy swap on a V8 (again, just parts cost) and the tech on the auto is non-existent, no computers on the auto, but I cant say I know how to do it on an LT85, maybe the driveshafts are the wrong length. Anyway, a swap of the drivetrain out of a disco I or RRC is a path well traveled.
 
evilfij

evilfij

Well-known member
mgreenspan said:
Maybe just use a long stick lt-77 with the Rover V8 and you’ll be fine. Pretty sure the long stick lt-77 and a Rover V8 is a stock drop in for a 4 cylinder Defender frame with all mounts so I can’t imagine it being much work with your 200 tdi series gearbox combo. If you want comfort for driving a V8 gas over diesel anything is the way.
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It’s a different ballgame in a series. To put a rover V8 in a series, you actually typically do two adaptors, a rover V8 to 4cylinder LT77 (or R380 stumpy) and then that to a series t-case. That is the shortest drivetrain (I have also seen 101FC LT95 and V8 but I don’t know how). You can also run the series transmission. That is even shorter. A V8 is a well trod path, especially in a 109, moreso with the series trans although you are pushing the strength of it. I have never done this but looked at it extensively before I decided I was better off with defenders.
 
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Robbiekb

Member
Some great feedback. A couple of notes, I upgraded the axles to disk brakes about 4 years ago.. it's "ok" (used the forbyn bros kit) but really needs a better matched brake booster to complete that mod. I did use to have a couple of RRC's , a 93 and 94LWB Sable. Personally I could never get comfortable in one, my head is always pressed up against the headliner. Bizarrely I have no headroom issues in either my Series or 90. I guess some vehicles just fit better than others ?

So I'm toying with either a designa chassis set up for the nas v8 drivetrain or maybe just ditching everything rover and going LS - GM 6 speed -lt230 . I guess I just wondered if anyone had gone with an auto box and if so, which engine did they use.
 
evilfij

evilfij

Well-known member
It sounds like you have a nice 109 SW and really want a 110 SW. maybe move on from the 109 and get a 110? 110SW with V8 auto drivetrains swapped in exist and that’s an easy swap as swaps go. I always thought the really early 110 SW, 83-84 with the split doors and galvanized trim were the best of both worlds (minus the engines) with series cool and defender practicality.
 
jymmiejamz

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
I agree, the OP wants a Defender, not a Series. That being said, a fully rebuild series drives really well with a carb, leafs, and drums.
 
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