New Defender, 2020

[RBBailey]

I took the spy shot everyone is talking about, and tweaked it to take out (most) of the distortion:

On the one hand, I kind of like it. But I still have a hard time seeing it as a Defender unless they can prove that it is tough and good at camping and off reading. They have to have some creative innovations on the interior, or I will hate it.

 

[blueboy]

Saw this as well:

 

[Uncle Douglas]

Not an interior you can take a hose to.

IMO the new truck will further fuel the desires of many to own the original

 

[rocky]

Keyless ignition fob, AC thats built into the design not an afterthought bolted to the bottom of the dash, and all kinds of other stuff.
It's not your Defender any more.

Rather I think if you took the D5 chassis and put a squarer body on closer to the original in style but with longer wheelbase for some rear seat legroom, you almost have it.

 

[BarryO]

Not an interior you can take a hose to.

Neither was this.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

Not sure I understand the point you are trying to make.

My point was the radical departure from the original simple design concept the engineers were working with.
Yes its modernization has been stepped over the decades and is certainly inevitable.
A huge part of LR's current place in the world market is deference to the defender and the role it has played in private/military/ and commercial applications, and that platforms adaptablity. Not sure that adaptability is even still possible but other mfr's seemingly are pursuing history and retro design harder. Not an opinion or disapointment, just an observation.

 

[RBBailey]

I was looking at pics a friend of mine is taking this week in Germany at their version of the Overland Rally. They did have a lot of Defenders and old school Unimogs, and GWagens, but the bulk of the vehicles were the new Euro Spec type of thing more along the lines of where Mitsubishi, Ford Ranger, Hilux, and others are going. And they all had bumpers that could be modified, and modded lifts, and all sorts of stuff. And I doubt most of them could be hosed out for real.

I think the new Defender is going to be too much of the Discovery/Evoque, but I also think their is hope if they allow for the aftermarket to take hold, and if it is actually reliable. If JLR is making a vehicle that will only work from the factory floor, and doesn't have top of the line modular/camper/off-road/Rivian-type innovative thinking in usability, I'm afraid it will just be another mall crawler. And I'm honestly afraid that it will take LR down with it.

 

[Red90]

There are a lot of Europeans, mostly Germans that "overland" across Canada. If you are on the typical route, you can see and talk with a lot of them. IME, around a third are in Defenders. Go to the campground in Dawson in the summer and 75% are on European plates. They are usually very heavily modified for camping. The drivetrains are usually untouched. I can't see anyone using a unibody vehicle as a base.

Was also just in Iceland. I would say half of the trucks modified with large tires for glacier travel are Defenders. On 37 to 44s with 4 to 6" lifts. They move all of the chassis ends suspension mounts down the 4 to 6", thus running stock suspension geometry. The rest of the ones on the road are mostly full sized American SUVs, Vans, Pickups. I assume that is how they will all go as the Defenders die off. Proper lifts on an IS truck made of aluminum would not be practical.

 

[blueboy]

They are usually very heavily modified for camping. The drivetrains are usually untouched. I can't see anyone using a unibody vehicle as a base.

Yes, this was our observation when living in Europe and camping in Italy, France, and a few other Countries. Besides the love of stickers and such on the body, the drivetrain including tire size usually stock.

Do you think the payload of the new Defender will be the limiting factor for this?

 

[BarryO]

Not sure I understand the point you are trying to make.

My point was that even in the "old" Defender, LR abandoned the just-hose-the-beef-jerky-wrappers-out-at-the-end-of-the-weekend thing a long time ago. 'can't blame the loss of this capability on the new Defender design.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

yeah,I get it now
@ some point we went from being able to use a hose to having to use an air hose.

 

[blueboy]

LR abandoned the just-hose-the-beef-jerky-wrappers-out-at-the-end-of-the-weekend thing a long time ago.

Have only owned one that I could actually do this for cleaning - 1967 NADA Series IIa 109 SW. It was great to just hose out dog fur, mud, etc. from the rubber mats on the floor. Will always miss that Rover.

 

[rovercolorado]

No matter what people say the days of hosing out the interior of a truck have been gone for 20 + years. I had a 2013 Jeep Wrangler that was washable with water per the manual but after getting it stuck in a giant water/mud hole and having to clean it I was VERY careful not to get any water on the dash and electronics areas.
I for one will be looking at the new Defender as a replacement for the 2015 LR4 that my wife drove daily. Based on what I've seen so far (very little) it will be a more than standard SUV in the flood of car based SUVs. If it's good for camping, outdoor activities and light off road duty it will better than 90% of SUVs sold today. I replaced my Defender with a 2018 Toyota Tacoma and haven't regretted it once. I can carry 2 13 ft kayaks, 4 mountain bikes and all my gear for a long weekend and do it with heated seats and cold AC. I have zero worries traveling 5 + hours to the trailhead and then 1 hr more to the camp. If the new Defender offers the same capabilities and comfort for under $50K it will be a huge hit.

 

[jymmiejamz]

If the new Defender offers the same capabilities and comfort for under $50K it will be a huge hit.

I highly doubt the new Defender will be under $50k. There isn't much on a JLR lot under $50k. Looking at my dealership's site, of the 519 new Land Rovers in inventory, there are only 48 under $50k and most are Discovery Sports. There are some Range Rover Evoques, but I bet they are base model versions with metal roofs.

 

[brdhmltn]

If it's over 50k the only competition it will be winning will be against other LR vehicles. My opinion is has to go head to head, toe to toe with the jeep or it won't work in the way JLR need it to.

 

[Red90]

There is nothing in this vehicle that would attract a Jeep buyer. Zero. The only market that this will attract is people that were lost due to the Disco 5 and some lost Defender buyers. I really have no idea what they see as the market. It will have no interest to the "real" overlanding crowd that currently mostly use Land Cruisers and Patrols or body on frame trucks. It will have no interest to the Wrangler buyer. It will have little interest to the luxury SUV buyer.

 

[rocky]

The moment ECUs came in to control engines hosing out interiors became harder.

I've used a leaf blower on both Ecu dominated cars and Defenders with great success.

 

[Red90]

LR math.

90" = 102"
110" = 119"
130" = 119"


If I read this right.

Diesels
D200 - 2 liter, 200hp (assume straight 4 Ingenium).
D240 - 2 liter, 240 hp (as above, existing engine model)
D300 - 3 liter, 300 hp (probably straight 6 Ingenium)

Petrols
P300- 2 liter, 300hp (assume straight 4 Ingenium, existing engine model).
P400 PHEV - 2 liter, 400 hp (as above with electric motor)
P400 - 3 liter, 400 hp (probably straight 6 Ingenium)

 

[brdhmltn]

Yeah, I'm done thinking about it. The only way to fix the front end is to buy two aftermarket fenders and a front bumper. And from the sales pics, it's going to be wwaaayy overpriced. 90 - Affluent FunSeeking Individual 110- Couples Self Employed Adventurers (Shouldn't they just say Instagram Influencers?) 130- Families Active Lifestyle and Travel

I'm definitely out... Nowhere in there does it say "normal average person". I think this will be the nail in the coffin for LR.

Lego did it best.

 

[RBBailey]

yeah,I get it now
@ some point we went from being able to use a hose to having to use an air hose.

I use a leaf blower, actually....