New Defender, 2020

BarryO

Well-known member
The New "Defender" looks more fugly every time I see pics of it.
One of the things I like about the real Defender is how butt-fugly it is. ;)

My license plate # used to start with "VUD", so I got a border with the words "Very Ugly Defender"
 

BDM

Member
That conspiracy theory video took my emotions on a wild roller coaster ride.

JLR is run by old cronies that have essentially lost the "adventure" that was originally Land Rover. Let's face it, Porsche has done nearly the same thing with the 911, way too high in the market for anyone but the super wealthy and all the electronics have taken the fun out of driving it. At the very least, the 911 still stays true to it's roots by being a performance car for the road and they've made updates to make it better for the road/track (moved the engine more to midline, etc).

Looks aside, I'm still pissed the new Defender is IFS front and rear. And I hope it tanks. These pricks deserve to get buried with their shitty looking ascots.
 

RBBailey

Well-known member
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I almost hope it completely fails as well. Maybe some kind of good will come from a complete crash. The problem is that the scar of how bad it was will always be with the company.

My hope is that the sloped roof, the alpine windows, the bonnet and wings, etc... are all more camo'd even than it appears they are. When I study the images, I see an LR4, but I can also see how the parts are fake, and I think we will get a vehicle that at least resembles the old Defender. But the hard part will be whether or not they can make the looks of the new Defender come anywhere close to the spirit of the old. I think I've lost all hope that the wheel/tire combo will be anything but what we see in the photos. Not only is the stance just too low, but it is way too low. And they appear to be taking away any real options for aftermarket mods when it comes to suspension, or even the front bumper.

Unless they really are running the LR5, and faking us out on the Defender, I'm pretty much at a loss as to what they really think they are doing with the Defender. Seems completely illogical.
 

rocky

Well-known member
Independent suspension hasn't eliminated suspension tweaks, they just have to be more subtle. Who would have thought that the LR4 could be modified like it is when it came out?

I remain convinced that key style elements like the hood/flat fender and wheel arch's will remain. This is in the same vein as the Range Rover's hood and roofline which remain design features today.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
The most disappointing possible outcome for me would be if it is anything like an LR3/LR4.
 

BDM

Member
haha Jimmie hates the design of the LR3/4. While it was designed around a minimalist style, at least the design cues have similar lines do the D1. When parked next to each other, you can see the evolution. My wife's LR3 @140k has been the family workhorse and a great ownership experience.

Here's why JLR went this route with the Defender:


They know at this point, they can't compete head to head with Jeep. Not on price point (lb for lb price) or on brand popularity. They've been gone for so long they're all but forgotten in the American mind. (I will say, we have one 94 NAS Defender on display in our JLR North Atlanta showroom and 70% of people that come in want to buy it...) That being said, they needed to find a different angle to attract ownership knowing that Jeep is and will kick their ass every which way when it comes to the Wrangler vs Defender debate and what you can get for your money.

The Rubicon Gladiator starts at $45k. That's an insane amount of truck for that money. Better priced, more capable and better features than a Toyota TRD Tacoma. They just can't compete. Maybe, if they had brought back the Defender 10 years ago and had a base to build off, then things would be different. Otherwise, moving up in the market is the only way to establish a foothold that Jeep dominates.
 

uc4me

Well-known member
I remain convinced that key style elements like the hood/flat fender and wheel arch's will remain. This is in the same vein as the Range Rover's hood and roofline which remain design features today.
I couldn't agree more with this as its been on my mind since the start of this charade. I gotta believe that it would be a pretty bad decision to forgo the iconic front bonnet/wing design among others..after all, it's this type of DNA that ties to loyality and sales. I believe it's under there.

...They've been gone for so long they're all but forgotten in the American mind.
^^This^^ As owners/enthusiasts it's easy for us to get wrapped around the axles in all things Defender but the fact remains the US will essentially be a new market for the Defender. They got some rugged trails ahead to blaze for a taste of that pie, in this segment anyway. Neverthless it will be interesting to watch.
 

copleymotorcars

Well-known member
i would own a roxor. i am fairly sure there are ways it could be plated and driven as a car in many states. add some cosmetic backdating to make it more vintage jeep. would be fantastic.
 

Red90

Well-known member
Watch a few videos on the Roxor. They are really bad. Much worse than a side by side.
 

BarryO

Well-known member
i would own a roxor. i am fairly sure there are ways it could be plated and driven as a car in many states. add some cosmetic backdating to make it more vintage jeep. would be fantastic.

IS ROXOR STREET LEGAL?
This is an off-road vehicle only, therefore it is NOT legal for use on any public street or highway. The ROXOR was designed and engineered to comply with off-highway vehicle standards such as those promulgated by ANSI/ROHVA (American National Standards Institute/Recreational Off-Highway Vehicle Association), the premier member organization charged with setting forth stringent safety rules for vehicles like our ROXOR Side-by-Side. The “off-road only” nature of ROXOR also keeps the price point well below those of street legal SUVs and 4x4s.

Plus, Jeep has filed a complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission. I imagine it's an intellectual property complaint over "trade dress".
 
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LR Max

Well-known member
The Roxor is more going after the Gator market. It is fine off road but more toward working off road. Since it has towing and carrying capacity. Would be nice on a ranch. But a tradition SxS would be better at a off road park. I did see some pics of the Roxor in Colorado. Would be a great platform for those trails since the Roxor has some comfort and range available (when I was out there, every SxS had a wife/girlfriend in it, who appeared to be completely miserable). I would say the range thing is the issue, most SxS and ATVs have to carry extra fuel when a normal vehicle just has to show up with a full tank.

Either way, I wish they would just call this car the LR5. Then it makes sense.
 

copleymotorcars

Well-known member

IS ROXOR STREET LEGAL?
This is an off-road vehicle only, therefore it is NOT legal for use on any public street or highway. The ROXOR was designed and engineered to comply with off-highway vehicle standards such as those promulgated by ANSI/ROHVA (American National Standards Institute/Recreational Off-Highway Vehicle Association), the premier member organization charged with setting forth stringent safety rules for vehicles like our ROXOR Side-by-Side. The “off-road only” nature of ROXOR also keeps the price point well below those of street legal SUVs and 4x4s.

Plus, Jeep has filed a complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission. I imagine it's an intellectual property complaint over "trade dress".
they have that disclaimer to absolve themselves. but, ways to get it done. the most expedient maybe with a vintage jeep VIN. not much different than the 2015 puma defender tagged as a 1985 trick going around. or a brand new cobra replica titled as a 1965.

i also understand the lawsuit/complaint to be headed nowhere. mahindra has an agreement from the 1950s, which had no expiration date, to produce jeep vehicles. kind of like santana/LR.
 

BDM

Member
What aspect? The rear door and large rear side windows?

Currently own a ‘96 D1 and do not see much resemblance.
Alright, Blue, I'll humor ya...

A side by side of my D1 and my wife's LR3. Kinda crappy pic but hood lines are similar and overall shape is there. The LR3 did a good job of shaving off the corners of the D1/D2. The front end of the LR3 melts the blinkers in with the front headlights. Horizontal 3 slat grille is carried over as well.

Rear end shot is obvious to me. Tapered adjustment as it goes up.

Also thought it'd be cool to see side by side of the Defender 2020 and my wife's LR3. As stated ad naseum, the resemblance is uncanny. Even the camo'd Defender looks exactly like the LR3.
 

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BarryO

Well-known member
they have that disclaimer to absolve themselves. but, ways to get it done. the most expedient maybe with a vintage jeep VIN. not much different than the 2015 puma defender tagged as a 1985 trick going around. or a brand new cobra replica titled as a 1965.
Sure lots of things are possible if you break the law. And I guess some States like Montana are pretty loose with the regulations. I would think there would be a problem insuring a rig like this. Personally, there's no way I'd take one on the highway. But there are communities that allow UTV's and golf-cart-like vehicles on 25 mph roads.

i also understand the lawsuit/complaint to be headed nowhere. mahindra has an agreement from the 1950s, which had no expiration date, to produce jeep vehicles. kind of like santana/LR.
Apparently Jeep has gotten some traction. 'will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 

RBBailey

Well-known member
Callsign: KF7KFZ
The JLR suit(s) over using their "name" and upgrading their vehicles are stupid. But I think Jeep has something here with Mahindra. I mean....
It is a copy of their style and design. And others have done it too, although Mahindra is the obvious one.

https://flic.kr/p/Mzo9em
 

blueboy

Well-known member
Alright, Blue, I'll humor ya...
Thx for the side by side pics.

To each his own on the similarities.

Get your points yet not sure it could be considered that much of a resemblance.

In my view, the 2006 110 we had in Brasil had the resemblance of the ‘67 109 SW we owned. That is more of what I’m thinking.
 
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