"Help shape the future of Land Rover"
- Thread starter vtlandrover
- Start date
blueboy
Well-known member
This years Jeep Easter Jamboree. This is how Jeep interacts with customer base:
“There was a point in time when I think we sort of strayed and lost focus with the enthusiast group, and these vehicles reopen that for us. And we’re out there watching, listening—these are great conversations. I love nothing more than rolling up on a bunch of Jeeps getting ready to go out on a trail ride with a few of these freaky Jeeps, and they want to come talk to us.”
“It shows that we’re tuned in with the customers,” Mark Allen, head of Jeep Design, says in explaining his team’s involvement
“There was a point in time when I think we sort of strayed and lost focus with the enthusiast group, and these vehicles reopen that for us. And we’re out there watching, listening—these are great conversations. I love nothing more than rolling up on a bunch of Jeeps getting ready to go out on a trail ride with a few of these freaky Jeeps, and they want to come talk to us.”
“It shows that we’re tuned in with the customers,” Mark Allen, head of Jeep Design, says in explaining his team’s involvement
vtlandrover
Well-known member
Unless and until you guys at least sit in the damned thing, it's hard to take seriously many of these criticisms. Yes, the murdered-out/side lunch box/upscale models are nothing more than urban warriors - as were/are the vast majority of NAS Defenders - while others live a hard life. I regularly tow a 55-hp farm tractor, traverse mud season that swallows school busses whole (that's not even the bad part), and wheel it up trails that used to give me concussions in my Series Rovers. In contrast, the Bronco and JK both max out at 3,500 lbs. and are woefully short of the safety ratings of the Defender. I hold my breath (with both hands on the wheel!) on the highway in my JKU and it sits at home when it's striper season.
Poseurs and Land Rovers have gone hand in hand for decades before Gerry McGovern and his perm came on scene.
Sorry for seeming defensive, but in this era of bullshit, I like to operate on verifiable fact and not what I read somewhere on the internet.
Poseurs and Land Rovers have gone hand in hand for decades before Gerry McGovern and his perm came on scene.
Sorry for seeming defensive, but in this era of bullshit, I like to operate on verifiable fact and not what I read somewhere on the internet.
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blueboy
Well-known member
All true yet the question you posed was help shape the future of LR. What interested me and what I posted was how Jeep approaches this question. They do it in person with vehicles on trails. And then listen to the current and potential customer. Regarding current LR offering once the metal dash on the IIa was replaced with plastic in the III LR never was the same.
vtlandrover
Well-known member
True! I can't find the links, of course, but distinctly remember during JL (Gladiator) development being really impressed by the fact that Jeep hired enthusiasts to the engineering department.
I have been kicking around the idea - since there's no moving the needle on their nomenclature or design team for existing models - to focus on what's lacking in the market. To me, there's gold to be found in smaller SUVs (and not Baby Broncos). Since the pendulum swings in somewhat predictable ways, in my estimation the thing missing in the market is a quality competitor to the Suzuki Jimny (in both soft and hard top versions). I base this on the once-successful history of the Samurai and Geolanders and the current success of the Maverick. And I'm not suggesting resurrection of the Freelander! Haha.
I have been kicking around the idea - since there's no moving the needle on their nomenclature or design team for existing models - to focus on what's lacking in the market. To me, there's gold to be found in smaller SUVs (and not Baby Broncos). Since the pendulum swings in somewhat predictable ways, in my estimation the thing missing in the market is a quality competitor to the Suzuki Jimny (in both soft and hard top versions). I base this on the once-successful history of the Samurai and Geolanders and the current success of the Maverick. And I'm not suggesting resurrection of the Freelander! Haha.
erover82
Well-known member
The facts are that none of that matters. Jeeps sell and customers love them for what they are. Make a Wrangler slightly larger, more heavy duty, professional oriented, and you've got a Defender. There exists nothing in that space, anymore.
blueboy
Well-known member
Actually had a 1991 Suzuki Sidekick marketed by Chevy. 2 speed transfer box, peppy engine, full frame, softtop. It was a pretty good off roader. And yes, the Maverick truck is being well accepted.
Siia109
Well-known member
Keep in mind what the global market dictates - BMW redesigned their trademark kidney grills to what marketed well in Asia. GM is chasing electric cars because of foreign markets - point being that the US is not the powerhouse of purchasing that it once was. Major design cues are going to be focused on what these markets want and if that market is expected to lead the pack (ie as BMW decided) then we maybe left scratching our heads as to what the hell they where thinking of (as you look at that front grill with a license plate in the center) in the design studio....
rocky
NAS-ROW Addict
I’ve not driven the new generation Defender but will one day. Visually I prefer the 90. But the 110 is definitely gaining customers.
Nobody, not even Toyota is above errors and problems in the first year of a new model. Just follow the Tundra with issues from turbos to rear axles, to infotainment. It’s how the manufacturer responds to the issues that counts.
And LRNA has always pushed Solihull hard on quality.
Nobody, not even Toyota is above errors and problems in the first year of a new model. Just follow the Tundra with issues from turbos to rear axles, to infotainment. It’s how the manufacturer responds to the issues that counts.
And LRNA has always pushed Solihull hard on quality.
FlyersFan76
Well-known member
I know it was a very small niche truck (less than 12,000 built) but AM General warrantied everything on a Hummer/H1. I had a tree branch break my tire inflation line because I drove through it and they covered it. For the small number of Land Rover's that are taken off road LR should cover it. It is good business especially since LR sponsors some of these events.
mgreenspan
Founding Member
Make sure you explain that there is no real difference between the models in the US. Make sure you emphasize that not every human being wants 20”+ rims. The lack of 17” rim choices is obnoxious. Make sure you emphasize that Gerry McGovern single handedly took it upon himself to integrate the worst aspect of every previous design into his “remakes” (tiny ass rear door on Defender and offset license plate on Discovery come to mind). Make sure you emphasize to them that Gerry is a huge knob that is so full of himself and rode the coattails of his successes with introducing small luxury SUVs at a time when that was all that was needed to boost sales. They let him run rampant and ruin the entire brand by diluting it and blending every model to the point that they only compete with themselves. Nobody buys one over a different brand, they buy them because they were going to buy one anyway. It’s just a matter of which model they were going to get.
Not sure, but my money is on middle Eastern consumers.
... and, unlike Jerry McGovern's junk, a LWB RRC is a very good on- and off-road vehicle.
The 80" was the best copy of the Jeep Rover could come up with. Same approach might work again.
The Gladiator dimensions and design were practically lifted from the old 130 CC Hi-Cap. I trust Jeep thanked Rover for the gift. I see them everywhere. Nicely done.
I agree there's major market demand for smaller, lighter. Although the Maverick is scaled down, it's no Suzi. (The VW Rabbit pickup had a short prod life here, longer overseas. It might work here now and could easily be awd. The Japanese quit building mini pickups after selling a million of them.) The prob with short wheelbase/high clearance vehicles is that it's easier to lose control and turn over, so it becomes a tougher engineering and liability problem. Jeep knows this better than anyone, having survived so long in the litigious USA environment. If they won't do it, I'd bet they have good reason.
Some Series III features were dictated by DOT. I've got miles in IIA and III, and other than the dash being easier to take apart, there's not much diff.All true yet the question you posed was help shape the future of LR. What interested me and what I posted was how Jeep approaches this question. They do it in person with vehicles on trails. And then listen to the current and potential customer. Regarding current LR offering once the metal dash on the IIa was replaced with plastic in the III LR never was the same.
I do like the self-canceling turn signals and "semi-synchro" box in the III, tho.
Nothing forced JLR to give up on the orig Land-Rover and Defender design principles. It was all their idea.
The new Defender serves a different market than the old one, that's all. If I gave up my LR3, it'd prob be for a Newfender. If I gave up my old Def, it prob would be for a Gren. I doubt I ever will do either, since I'll be worn out before they'll be.
I still consider the old Defender to be superior to either new vehicle in some ways, and a better fit to some purposes. That also applies, but to a lesser extent to old RR's and Discos.
Most of the negative attitude has less to do with the car itself and more with what JLR has done and how. Dig the TV advert that shows the new Defs literally running circles around an old 90. Oh, I get it now. That's supposed to be funny.
The Gren and new Defender will end up in comparison road tests by professional journalists. Same for YouTube influencers. The vehicles aren't the same, for sure. I wonder if anyone will struggle to decide which one is best for them.
McGovern was put in charge at Jaguar too a while back. Apparently, corporate couldn't be happier with what he's done at Rover. His is a volume game, getting a small piece of a big market instead of a big piece of a small market. Special purpose and niche anything are out. Tradition is a marketing not an engineering issue. I wonder if their racing program fits his idea of the Jaguar lifestyle.