Reese_D90
Well-known member
Only info at this point is what I posted above.
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Grenadier
- Thread starter WreckITFrank
- Start date
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vtlandrover
Well-known member
WreckITFrank
Technical Excellence Contributor
. I think a cars and coffee type of deal is more likely, and we could even meet at the simeone museum if it's in that area. @Angus and I were just chatting about a meetup there..but as we know, "philly" can mean a rather large area....lots of members in the area regardless...
Kind of comical that Expedition Portal says the Gren is a purpose-built overland vehicle. If overlanders, i.e. "professionals and adventurers" are their only market, they're doomed for sure. I would say that the Gren is prob the most suitable new vehicle to be sold in the USA for overlanding.
Ineos Grenadier :: Exclusive First Overland Test (Prototype) - Expedition Portal
We are the first in North America to test the new Ineos Grenadier Prototype off-road and overland on technical terrain and dirt roadsexpeditionportal.com
The article to go along with the video. Lots of ads yet readable.
I am also puzzled by their statement that a Gren can be driven anywhere there are motorcycles. Perhaps they meant to say that it requires unleaded gasoline? I run avgas in my bike.
evilfij
Well-known member
I think their point was to deflate the no diesel complaints. If there are motorcycles there is gasoline. It’s sort of ironic because if you follow the europe/australian people they hate the new diesels because they are all crap because of tech and emissions and, if you are buying a new “overland” vehicle, outside of 3/4 and 1 ton plus trucks, and even with then, you are probably better off with gasoline. The “good” diesels can’t be sold in the civilized world anymore (1HZ for example).
I mean if you are overlanding outside of the populated portion of Europe. Australia, the lower 48 and Canada, I am guessing BMW parts, let alone Ineos parts, are not going to be easy to come by. It will be interesting to see if they are able to get global distribution. Of course the one good thing is that they are selling a similar product everywhere unlike Toyota who seems to think the way to do things is to sell not the same vehicle everywhere (fourtuner/prado/70 series/hilux/lane cruiser) as in the the US/Canada or FCA/Ford/GM who I have no idea what they sell elsewhere.
I mean if you are overlanding outside of the populated portion of Europe. Australia, the lower 48 and Canada, I am guessing BMW parts, let alone Ineos parts, are not going to be easy to come by. It will be interesting to see if they are able to get global distribution. Of course the one good thing is that they are selling a similar product everywhere unlike Toyota who seems to think the way to do things is to sell not the same vehicle everywhere (fourtuner/prado/70 series/hilux/lane cruiser) as in the the US/Canada or FCA/Ford/GM who I have no idea what they sell elsewhere.
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MountainD
Technical Excellence Contributor
Keep in my, when they speak of the overlander crowd, they mean everyone that wishes it was their life but in reality it is not. Pick any “rugged” 4x4, definitely including the Defender. Hell, I know more Defender owners that don’t even off-road than jeepers. That is how that “market” exists. Most of those people just get in the way…
evilfij
Well-known member
In my day we called it going camping ….
Then again, I am east coast/mid-Atlantic so it’s not like I can get very far in dirt roads even if I wanted to. I think I have been on one dirt road around here and I am not sure how I even got on it or where it was. …
There is a shop near me (has now expanded with a location in Vermont and one in North Carolina) and they do a good business bolting on overlanding kit to new/newish mostly SUVs and pick up trucks. Some people use it I guess ….
The actual manufactures are now into the game. You can kit out your Toyota with ARB products, your Subaru with various products, so too with Jeep. Porsche will even sell you a rooftop tent ….
I bet ineos gets into the game in short order. Lots of money in the accessories and add ons.
And made for easier loading from the curb no doubt. Perhaps the thinking was to make the IG rear doors function best for a RHD environment? In the UK the spare tire would be behind the driver and not in their blind spot.
I get the simplicity of the "One Size Its All" approach but, if they're moving the driver's controls around for different markets, how costly is it to make rear doors suitable for LHD markets? I can live with the fuel fill port on the wrong side but I'm used to that with older Toyota Land Cruisers. In some ways I prefer it as my driver door is not up against the pumps and trash cans, etc.
While I'd love to get the mileage and torque of a diesel engine in the Grenadier here in NA, I will admit to being sooo over the modern diesel powerplant. I'll likely never use the vehicle outside of North America anyway so cold weather operation is a must and the vehicle will also need to stand up to short trips in my home range. Diesels, in general, are ill suited to either of those scenarios. If we were talking about a 300tdi (which I've never owned) or a mini version of a 5.9 Cummins 12 valve (which I'm very familiar with) then my decision as to which engine platform to choose would be difficult. Nothing even remotely similar to those engines will ever be available new in westernized countries ever again.
As it is I am pretty comfortable with the B58 variant slated to go into current production Grenadiers. While they certainly have their drawbacks (Vanos/Valvtroic issues, timing chains on the back of the block, a ton of plastic parts, etc.) there's much to like if you look. There's a good bit of aftermarket support and also a lot of these engines on the road and in salvage yards that haven't been abused. Most of the systems have been simplified since the earlier iterations including the timing chain. Ineos is de-tuning the engine to some degree as well so that should add some reliability. Upping tire size and reducing the average rpm number could increase lifespan too providing the torque can be remapped downward in the range a bit. Though of small displacement, the engine is long-ish and tall so fitting other engines in the future might be made easier.
My only niggling concern is that the first NAS Grenadiers are going to be 2024 models and not MY2023. That may move the engine selection to a newer, yet untried B58 variant. The only info I've seen on that engine seems to indicate that it is even more "optimized" and oriented towards high rev performance which does not look promising.
Idk how anyone expects to sell new diesels with the requirement to keep the fuel additive tank full, especially if, as in the case of Rovers, it can only be filled by a dealer.
Ineos can spec any powerplant for lower rpm torque rather than higher rpm power.
A non-interference engine would be preferable for "overlanding," and in general for the Gren in my opinion.
Better to have a proven powerplant that's been produced in large #'s than something brand new.
Good reasons mentioned to swap the rear doors around for LHD markets. Also not sure they tried hard enough to mount the spare down low for better viz.
The guy that wrote the article knows the difference between overlanders and shopping carts. His business is overlanding so that's how he sees the Gren. There's more to it. My take on the intent behind the Gren is to build a versatile utility vehicle, suitable for many duties, including overlanding. No doubt that many will be adapted specifically for overlanding. I would prefer an earlier Defender or similar vintage truck myself.
He didn't mention expeditions which are on a whole other level. We all know that most off pavement capable vehicles, and especially new ones, are used 90%+ on pavement. Fewer will ever even see 2 track. Same will prob apply to Gren.
Ineos can spec any powerplant for lower rpm torque rather than higher rpm power.
A non-interference engine would be preferable for "overlanding," and in general for the Gren in my opinion.
Better to have a proven powerplant that's been produced in large #'s than something brand new.
Good reasons mentioned to swap the rear doors around for LHD markets. Also not sure they tried hard enough to mount the spare down low for better viz.
The guy that wrote the article knows the difference between overlanders and shopping carts. His business is overlanding so that's how he sees the Gren. There's more to it. My take on the intent behind the Gren is to build a versatile utility vehicle, suitable for many duties, including overlanding. No doubt that many will be adapted specifically for overlanding. I would prefer an earlier Defender or similar vintage truck myself.
He didn't mention expeditions which are on a whole other level. We all know that most off pavement capable vehicles, and especially new ones, are used 90%+ on pavement. Fewer will ever even see 2 track. Same will prob apply to Gren.
blueboy
Well-known member
Amen, brother.
But those markets are at ridiculous levels. Wannabe/poser/lifestyle pretenders have driven the used market for simple 4-door 4X4s through the roof. Full sized pickups are just too big (I have several) so they're out in my opinion. A ROW Defender 110 appears to suit my needs and disposition but, not knowing the ins & outs of Roverdom (and no one to hold my hand), leaves me very old American Motors/Jeep products, International Harvester stuff (both have very low numbers to chose from), or the something from the last few solid axle Land Cruiser models. Those are most familiar to me but OE parts are spendy and being discontinued fast. Aftermarket support is limited due to low original sales numbers in NA and oriented toward bolt-on "off road" and "overlanding" equipment overall. On top of it they don't really assemble/disassemble like a LR product. The bodies are big hulks and somewhat difficult to maintain just by pulling wrenches. It's not even possible to buy new frame pieces or complete body panels currently unless something has recently changed. I also really shouldn't invest in yet another old vehicle parts stash with engine bocks and axle housings at the bottom and switches/trim pieces teetering at the top. I've got enough of those already.
That leaves me with buying new or paying for a restored vehicle. I think everyone here knows the score on "restored" vehicles. It's easy to hit new car prices or higher and get junk if you're not careful whether it be Land Cruiser or Defender. Thus I'm keen on the Grenadier. It's a little bit of enthusiasm mixed with a healthy dose of desperation.
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@TJS Hopefully the Gren will be a vehicle you can buy without embarking on a side gig as an unpaid Ineos tech intern. Lol.
Finding a good Rover for overlanding shouldn't be that hard. The LWB (108") Range Rover Classic model is a good candidate since it's cheaper than 110's and overall a much nicer vehicle. The funny money prices I see mostly are for pimped out Defs that have actually been made less suitable for overlanding. Once you decide on which model/spec you want, look at every Rover you can and be patient until you find the one that fits. There's a ton of info posted here on how to evaluate a vehicle, and plenty of people that will address/answer specific questions you have.
Finding a good Rover for overlanding shouldn't be that hard. The LWB (108") Range Rover Classic model is a good candidate since it's cheaper than 110's and overall a much nicer vehicle. The funny money prices I see mostly are for pimped out Defs that have actually been made less suitable for overlanding. Once you decide on which model/spec you want, look at every Rover you can and be patient until you find the one that fits. There's a ton of info posted here on how to evaluate a vehicle, and plenty of people that will address/answer specific questions you have.
blueboy
Well-known member
Agreed and have had a few over the years. All of them have performed well and taken us to many places around the world. The 110 in Brazil traveled to Chile, Argentina, Paraquay, and all over Brazil. The 109 crossed the US multiple times and up to Prince Edward Island. The current Rangie was in Europe with us and took us on many trips to France, Italy, Austria, and on many high altitude passes. None of them ever left us stranded. As mentioned this site is a tremendous resource and a great group of Rover enthusiasts.
WreckITFrank
Technical Excellence Contributor
I have a hard time even imagining all the places you've actually been. Feel free to share more pics in a deserving thread.
evilfij
Well-known member
I was watching some Australian videos on the 70 series Land Cruisers. Still available new, but demand is such that they won’t even let you order one (>2 year wait before they cut off the order book). The interior is straight out of the 80s and the top spec has cloth seats. The only mechanical negative seems to be they added DEF to the 4.5 diesel V8 which has some issues.
It will be interesting to see if the grenadier picks up some of that pent up demand.
It will be interesting to see if the grenadier picks up some of that pent up demand.
vtlandrover
Well-known member
I watched one as well and what I can't gather is if it's the same build quality of the 200-series that I sold last year... as I've said on this site a dozen times, that LC was perhaps the nicest "thing" I've ever owned. So hefty; so satisfying. Way, way beefier than a FJ60 I had a few years prior...