Grenadier

mgreenspan

Founding Member
Well if the price is $75k and it’s £55k then it’ll be out for me in the UK. I can’t justify it over a new Land Cruiser J150. My wife likes how it looks, but that price bump takes it from the man this is expensive category and puts it into the what am I doing category. I could buy a lot of shit box 4x4s for £10k.
 

WreckITFrank

Technical Excellence Contributor
I was open to $50-60k with a diesel. $75k without? phbbbtttt.

No thanks.

I guess if I want a modern diesel Defender, I'll have to build my own.
exactly, i had a JGC with the 3.0l diesel that was pretty fantastic, but I sold it off for the pandemic when i became full time WFH. i was hoping for something cool from the EV truck camp, but the Rivian is too much and the Nikola was vaporware. I'll probably just end up with a current gen truck and smaller diesel to keep me satisfied. I was in exactly the same boat, thinking $60's w/ a diesel, and I'm all in. Even bought a damn T-shirt and pre sold my wife on it.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
Just out of curiosity, why do you guys want a diesel? I like them in newer land rovers, but only because they are quieter than the direct injected petrol equivalents. Outside of that, they don’t offer much advantage over petrol other than marginally better fuel economy
 

WreckITFrank

Technical Excellence Contributor
Just out of curiosity, why do you guys want a diesel? I like them in newer land rovers, but only because they are quieter than the direct injected petrol equivalents. Outside of that, they don’t offer much advantage over petrol other than marginally better fuel economy
My jeep got around 32MPG w/ a tune, 28 without and around 600 miles to the tank on long hauls. The power was great, was as quiet as a gas motor, and prices for diesel for me always were pretty consistent. I didnt tow much, but liked that really didnt hurt me all that much when i did. I came from an LR3 that got the average 12MPG and had to make some East Coastal trips for the military and needed something better on fuel and maintenance. The 4.4 was a dog for me, but I loved the truck for 100k until I traded it in. This was the compromise vehicle, i got my new, quiet diesel (despite my hatred for DEF and the EPA destroying them), and the utility and look of what a current gen defender is in my opinion.
 

FlyersFan76

Well-known member
Just when the US was warming up to diesels again VW screwed that up. The amount of diesel fueling points for passenger vehicles is increasing not decreasing. The fueling marketers are certainly seeing the demand for diesel and filling that. There are stations that weren't built with diesel and are being upgraded. New ones in my area are built to have diesel in every fueling position right along side gas.

I just do not understand how consumers can look at 20mpg of gas being better than 30mpg of diesel.
 

Adam

Well-known member
Just out of curiosity, why do you guys want a diesel? I like them in newer land rovers, but only because they are quieter than the direct injected petrol equivalents. Outside of that, they don’t offer much advantage over petrol other than marginally better fuel economy
My Disco V gets 25 - 30mpg in moderate long distance driving, depending on speed. This gives me about 400 miles of range with the torque of a V8 and the efficiency of a 4cyl, with fuel prices between 89 and 93 octane gasoline.

That's why I want diesel.
 

mgreenspan

Founding Member
Diesel requires more maintenance costs over the lifetime generally speaking (not considering crappy V8s used in LR products through 2004). I like the increased range per fill up and the low end torque. Aside from that, I’d prefer gasoline engines for use in the US. Engine options in the UK for gasoline engines are not as good as in the US for SUVs/trucks.
 

Adam

Well-known member
Diesel requires more maintenance costs over the lifetime generally speaking (not considering crappy V8s used in LR products through 2004). I like the increased range per fill up and the low end torque. Aside from that, I’d prefer gasoline engines for use in the US. Engine options in the UK for gasoline engines are not as good as in the US for SUVs/trucks.

Can you point to empirical evidence that Diesel has higher maintenance costs? This article offers a differing opinion.

 

CDN38

Well-known member
One thing I learned with modern diesels is it's the exaust / DEF / DPF system that is costly, not the engine. With our 2009 GL320 we had to either remove the catalytic converters, DPF , DEF system '02 sensors and reprogram the ECU or look at close to $10,000 to replace them all. Reason being too many short trips not getting the system up to temperature. Apparently it clogs the DPF and creates issues.
 

mgreenspan

Founding Member
Can you point to empirical evidence that Diesel has higher maintenance costs? This article offers a differing opinion.

Yeah. I buy a Toyota and I replace filters and spark plugs for the duration of its life. I buy a diesel and I suddenly have a turbo, injectors, injector pump, glow plugs, etc. These are significantly more expensive to repair than gasoline engine repairs.

That article is the most wishy washy thing I’ve ever read, maintenance cheaper but more expensive when needed. Like I was saying...
Or you can read this differing opinion. https://www.government-fleet.com/15...bad-investment-only-fleet-managers-know-about

this link said:
In a 2012 study comparing gasoline vs. diesel vehicles, the company found: “When all costs to own and operate a diesel were taken into account, the average cost of ownership for diesels was $1,203 more than their all-gasoline-powered counterparts, with results assuming an annual mileage of 15,000 over five years.”

It all depends how long you’re going to have the vehicle. If you’re a buy new and ditch at 80k mi maybe not as important. If you’re a buy new and ride until it dies then it might be. If you’re a buy at 60k mi and drive for 100k mi type of guy then you’re probably not doing yourself any favors.
 
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pfshoen

Well-known member
Ineos may have been encouraged to price it high when they saw what old used Defenders are selling for. Pricing def cuts against the utility idea.
If the alpine windows aren't alpine windows, then wtf are they?
 

Adam

Well-known member
That article is the most wishy washy thing I’ve ever read, maintenance cheaper but more expensive when needed. Like I was saying...

That was kindof my point.. Anyone can throw anecdotal data out there.


The results of the 2012-2013 TCO analyses are even more promising than the results of the previous 2010-2011 study. Overall, the results of the TCO analyses show that diesel vehicles provide owners with a TCO that in many cases is much less than that of the gasoline versions of the same vehicles. The estimates of savings for three and five years of ownership vary from a low of $929 in three years to a high of $19,505 in five years, but most of the savings are in the $2,000 to $7,000 range, which also include the extra cost that is usually added to the original price of the diesel version of a vehicle. Though there are some exceptions to these positive results for some of the diesel versions of vehicles from a TCO perspective, the overall direction of the results supports the idea that diesel vehicles compete well within the U.S. market. In particular, the idea that buyers can get a return on their initial higher investment in a diesel vehicle within three years is a very positive sign, considering that new vehicle buyers tend to keep their new vehicles for an average of three to five years.


ref: https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/111893/103193.pdf
 

mgreenspan

Founding Member
That was kindof my point.. Anyone can throw anecdotal data out there.





ref: https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/111893/103193.pdf
Great job reading the article I linked in response to your first. It referenced this exact study. So I’ll help you out. The data on diesel trucks vs gas trucks doesn’t support your position. The data on VW autos and Merc autos does. Ponder as to which would a Grenadier compare to more appropriately? I’m not going to bother bantering with you about it anymore.
 

Adam

Well-known member
Great job reading the article I linked in response to your first. It referenced this exact study. So I’ll help you out. The data on diesel trucks vs gas trucks doesn’t support your position. The data on VW autos and Merc autos does. Ponder as to which would a Grenadier compare to more appropriately? I’m not going to bother bantering with you about it anymore.

Glad to hear this has reached a conclusion.
 

UnfrozenCaveman

Well-known member
Ineos may have been encouraged to price it high when they saw what old used Defenders are selling for. Pricing def cuts against the utility idea.
If the alpine windows aren't alpine windows, then wtf are they?
Scott Brady went to the event back east & on their podcast said they're grab handles.

Looking closely at the photos, I think I believe him.
 

erover82

Well-known member
Scott Brady went to the event back east & on their podcast said they're grab handles.

Looking closely at the photos, I think I believe him.

I assume this is what they're for.
1623346406393.png
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
Can you point to empirical evidence that Diesel has higher maintenance costs? This article offers a differing opinion.

As far as modern land rovers go, they definitely cost more to maintain in they are diesels. Call a dealership and get a quote for any service on a diesel and then ask about a petrol. It will likely be double the price.

This post is quite timely as I’m just leaving an RV park north of Richmond helping a friend of a friend who is traveling to NYC and had 13 miles until no engine restarts due to a DEF quality fault. They tried to go to the dealer but they are booked for 1 month. A local Land Rover specialist couldn’t figure it out and caused DEF dosing faults to be on the display.
 
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