Grenadier

dcg

Well-known member
One of the videos states that the oil filter will be a replaceable paper cartridge oil filter. Does not really answer your location question though.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
The BMWs and Mercedes I've owned have all been very easy to change the oil filter. I use a vacuum to get the oil out.

I just heard on one of the LRW videos that parts diagrams will be free from manufacturer, and interactive 3D. The vehicle, and parts, will all be able to be ordered online.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Taken from a Facebook group:

GrenadierRover2.jpg

GrenadierRover.jpg
 

SaintPanzer

Well-known member
I think those are Austrian plates, and the G would be Graz, which is where Steyr Magna is located. That looks like an interesting pizza place in the background, but I can't find that particular location...
 

pfshoen

Well-known member
Vid says there will be an engine oil drain bung.
Idk how you'd service a timing chain at the rear. Pull the engine?
Extended wheelbase crew cab sounds good, but what about the chicken tax?
Vid narrator says the Defender is a pos compared to the Grenadier. Questions how the vehicle will impact the Defender market. Ineos definitely intend to hit the UK and USA markets hard. There are a lot of people spending a lot of money for Defenders that artistes have tried to convert to modern luxury vehicles. (That's what I always thought Rover did when they built the Range Rover.) The Grenadier looks like it will get a lot closer to that goal for a lot less money and pita. And also be better at various utilitarian purposes than the Pretender. Ineos must expect to take a big bite out of the Defender market, both new and old. Although the Pretender doesn't appear to have affected values of Defenders, I won't be surprised if the Grenadier does.
Narrator wonders if traditional Defender customers will accept a vehicle that doesn't break down. I have to laugh at that one. Perhaps the "macho rugged individualist" option package will include a guarantee that it will need DIY repairs at regular and inconvenient intervals. Only question is how much extra they'd have to charge so that some Grenadier owners get the full Land Rover experience. Throw in removing the door seals and any sound deadening and insulation so no one feels cheated. Eliminate all rustproofing measures as well. What's a former Defender owner gonna do with his weekends and vacations if he's not cleaning and Waxoyling the undercarriage? Imagine!
There's still no vehicle I'd rather take on an expedition than a Defender, or depend on for extended use in a remote environment. That also applies to extreme off roading/rock climbing if properly modified. I'd also prefer a Defender for ranch/farm and many other utilitarian uses. However, the safari look and retro cred alone aren't enough for me to make it the first choice for the more common activities SUV's are involved in.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
There are a lot of people spending a lot of money for Defenders that artistes have tried to convert to modern luxury vehicles. (That's what I always thought Rover did when they built the Range Rover.) The Grenadier looks like it will get a lot closer to that goal for a lot less money and pita.
That's one of the many reasons I sold my Defender. I got to a point where I either had to go full Arkonik, or keep as is. But I already had the Series soft top, and a Defender with bad doors, one of them had to give.

There's still no vehicle I'd rather take on an expedition than a Defender, or depend on for extended use in a remote environment. That also applies to extreme off roading/rock climbing if properly modified. I'd also prefer a Defender for ranch/farm and many other utilitarian uses. However, the safari look and retro cred alone aren't enough for me to make it the first choice for the more common activities SUV's are involved in.
I understand this, but don't fully agree. I still have the Series, and do go out in it for over nighters and such, but when it's 100 degrees, 4" of dust, no wind, no trees, and 8 hours of driving, the AC does come in handy. Well, and then there's the daily use thing. There have been times during my Land Rover ownership where I've taken a change of clothes with me to go to work because of what I drive. Might as well be a motorcycle some days.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ

Not sure what to think of the timing chain issue you guys are describing. Seems like a serious consideration, but it's difficult to find any issues that people have had with it. I'm sure they are out there, but it's only been in vehicles for about 5 years now. I'd think you'd need at least 100k miles to start thinking about a timing chain as a common issue.

I have wondered though, why the in-line? Did BMW limit their choices? Did they select it for some specific reason that might have to do with: Easy to work on, easy to remove (something was mentioned in the videos about that), easy to get parts?

I sure like the Merc and BMW V6 diesels that I've had, and the Merc V6 gas I have now. I think the only in-line engine I've driven was a highly modified OM606 that was probably around 250hp, so I don't have much experience with anything in-line, except for the Rover 2.25 and 300Tdi.
 

mgreenspan

Founding Member
My reasoning:
1. I love off-roading and have had as much fun in stock vehicles as lifted locked vehicles.
2. I need a car for getting around that is comfortable and has useful interior space.
3. My wife likes it.

The Grenadier is checking all 3. The Jeep doesn’t quite achieve 2. The Bronco looks a step above the Jeep. The other top choice is the Land Cruiser Prado. I’ve always loved Land Rovers so the Grenadier seems like it’s going to scratch that itch, too. I think if we only had 1 kid the Jeep would have already been owned.
 

Eliot

Well-known member
I have wondered though, why the in-line?
BMW has always made them, but straight six motors are popular again. They’re naturally balanced and have good power delivery.

With emissions rules in the EU it’s also the biggest motor you could expect to get. And from what I’ve read, BMW built that engine around the EUs very low emissions target.

BMW also appear to be more committed to petrol engines than other suppliers, like Mercedes. There’s that talk of Mercedes going all electric. So BMW is perhaps a better long term choice.

And BMW makes it easy for them to offer a diesel option with few additional costs

BMWs software is also well designed. We had a BMW fleet at work, and while I’m not a technology person, the graphical interface was very easy use. It made sense.

And my immediate reaction to those interfaces is almost always hatred.

As a package, it’s a good idea.

I did read that the rear mounted timing chain improved the engine balance? But I’d like to see the math on that one.
 

pfshoen

Well-known member
That's one of the many reasons I sold my Defender. I got to a point where I either had to go full Arkonik, or keep as is. But I already had the Series soft top, and a Defender with bad doors, one of them had to give.


I understand this, but don't fully agree. I still have the Series, and do go out in it for over nighters and such, but when it's 100 degrees, 4" of dust, no wind, no trees, and 8 hours of driving, the AC does come in handy. Well, and then there's the daily use thing. There have been times during my Land Rover ownership where I've taken a change of clothes with me to go to work because of what I drive. Might as well be a motorcycle some days.
No question that a/c is a great advantage sometimes, and hugely practical for DD. I try to plan expeditions in the right place at the right time, so I can make do without a/c. Can also do without electric windows, power seats, vacuum op tailgate locks (P38, LR3) etc. I avoid Winter in the Rockies and Summer in Death Valley. No way to get out of sweating of course, but roasting and/or freezing is no fun.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
No question that a/c is a great advantage sometimes, and hugely practical for DD. I try to plan expeditions in the right place at the right time, so I can make do without a/c. Can also do without electric windows, power seats, vacuum op tailgate locks (P38, LR3) etc. I avoid Winter in the Rockies and Summer in Death Valley. No way to get out of sweating of course, but roasting and/or freezing is no fun.
I can’t think of a trip I’ve taken my D90 on where I didn’t use the ac. Even in the winter, it helps to remove the moisture In the cabin that causes the windows to steam up. And this is speaking from having taken trips up and down the east and west coasts, and a lot in between.

Land Rover didn’t use vacuum actuated locks btw.
 

pfshoen

Well-known member
I can’t think of a trip I’ve taken my D90 on where I didn’t use the ac. Even in the winter, it helps to remove the moisture In the cabin that causes the windows to steam up. And this is speaking from having taken trips up and down the east and west coasts, and a lot in between.

Land Rover didn’t use vacuum actuated locks btw.
Then they're electric, or is it a secret? They fail.
I never use a/c unless it's hot, except to briefly exercise it during periods of non-use to extend the life of the seals. It loads the engine and decreases mpg, which it does already because of it's weight. I can see it would be helpful to deal with fog-up in especially humid conditions, even tho it isn't connected to the windshield defrost vents in a D90. However, for expeditions, anything that's not absolutely necessary gets left behind. Parameters are quite a bit different than those for DD, travel, camping and even overland. For example, there would be no provision to take raw meat and beer. Need the room/weight for fuel and water.
A/c also fails. (It quit working in my Subie DD yesterday.) Then it becomes dead weight, and does nothing but make it more difficult to work under the hood. Sure glad that didn't happen half way through a 10 day expedition in hot weather after the driver's side window and tailgate won't open, and the seat is stuck in the rearmost position. Good times! I do what works for me.
This thread is about the Grenadier, where it fits in the landscape vs. the Defender and Pretender, and their relative merits and demerits. 3 different animals with different purposes and capabilities. Each is better at something than the others, and in general should appeal to different segments of the market, based on customers' priorities. None could be all things to all people and the street will sort that soon enough. My comments in response to the videos are my humble opinion and best guess. I enjoy and benefit from reading the same from others.
 

erover82

Well-known member
There's more compromise involved with having AC in a Defender than modern vehicles like a Grenadier where's it's fully integrated with well engineered components. I'm hesitant to add AC to a LR, but would it be useful if it involved little or no compromise? Definitely. I bet that will be the case for the Grenadier.
 

WreckITFrank

Technical Excellence Contributor
What colors are you getting/hoping for? I do appreciate the token silver, but open to seeing what's out there. Would also no be against a 2 tone with a different roof color. If im going all out with a Defender clone, might as well really hit the mark.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
The AC systems in modern cars are much less taxing than what was on the stuff in the '90s and earlier. I also only use AC when needed on the older vehicles. But on my wife's 2017 X5, I have it on almost all the time.

Which actuated vacuum locks are we talking about? I missed that, and how it connects to Grenadier.

I'm liking a dark grey or blue color. An earth brown or something might be interesting, but hard to picture.
 

Eliot

Well-known member
What colors are you getting/hoping for? I do appreciate the token silver, but open to seeing what's out there. Would also no be against a 2 tone with a different roof color. If im going all out with a Defender clone, might as well really hit the mark.

I like the Gunmetal Grey the best. It hides some of the funky geometry.

Hopefully they’ll have more information in October when they start taking deposits.
 

chuckc4

Well-known member
I have wondered though, why the in-line? Did BMW limit their choices? Did they select it for some specific reason that might have to do with: Easy to work on, easy to remove (something was mentioned in the videos about that), easy to get parts?
Note, not a shill for BMW, Grenadiere, etc...

The BMW I-6 has many advantages, It is well balanced, smooth, and delivers a fair amount of torque for it's size. Straight six motors also offer longevity against a V4 or V8 -- I am not sure about this but I think all BMW inline six motors spread their load across 7 main bearings. The BMW I-6 is a great choice for every reason except emissions but a turbo four will shake itself to death while an I6 remains in it's sweet spot for a long time. The BMW straight six is a great motor for the Grenadiere.

In all honesty though, wouldn't you rather have a G Wagon over anything???
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
But... I already have a GWagen! ;P

I do like the G, but...... it isn't a Rover. Just today, I pulled the dash out of the Series, started a wiring refurb project, and started looking for the unicorn of the part of the ignition switch; and I just realized how much I miss.... Never mind....
 

rocky

NAS-ROW Addict
if you've never driven a good six, you're missing out. Honestly better than the old Rover V8. I loved the Honda J35 and love the Volvo B6304T that I get to drive way too often.
 
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