GM 292 Straight 6 - Yet another conversion

[RDavisinVA]

No issues. Drive it daily, never overheats.
Lots of highway crusing between 70 and 80 with the petal down about 1/4" and less.
Suggest your friend advance the timing.
Retarded timing will create overheating,
No idea on the mileage, yet.
Feels like driving a race car as am use to a 2-3 second turbo diesel lag and as a result can't keep my foot off the petal.
Since there is no turbo lag, the speed increases between 15 and 30 MPH per second depending on the gear you've selected.
If you're a lazy driver you can take a corner in 5th gear and drive ahead like having an automatic.
With 280 ft lbs of torque at 1,600 RPM, you can really enjoy the drive and never be over concerned as to which gear is selected.
Can even burn rubber from a stop.
Such a relief to be able to put your foot down and pass everyone...

 

[RBBailey]

I think the one thing that concerns me about this type of conversion is the mileage and the fact that this engine is really a pretty old engine. Even with parts all over the place, it seems odd to "upgrade" to something that is older than the truck itself.

I really would like to see MPG and more videos of it running from inside and out. I love (hate) my diesel. There's just something about it. But I also need to keep an open mind since this is my get to work daily driver and overlander all in one. I wouldn't be in the market till my Tdi bites the dust, but I have to consider it what you are selling if the diesel dies.

 

[RDavisinVA]

Talking about old, the 200TDI for example shares the same basic block as the first 2,0 diesel and later 2.25 that dates back to the 1950s.
Sure the factory revised it a few times and beefed it up to 5 main bearings in the 1970s, but it's still basically a 1950s engine with a bottom end support cradle and an aluminum head with a different front cover to accommodate an injection pump.
The vacuum pump is driven in the same hole the distributor used in the 1950s Land Rover petrol engine.
This add-on of parts to make a 200TDI function has many limitations that just are not present on a GM inline 6.

200TDI:
Head has small bridge between the valves- prone to cracking.
Front cover has the coolant passing through it so if the system develops a leak or gets pressurized by a blown head gasket requires tearing the front off the engine to replace a paper gasket - removal of injection pump, seals timing gears, crank pullet, front cover, timing belt, injection pump, injection lines, and so on.
Much higher maintenance: Prone to blowing head gaskets, timing belt has to be changed, turbo maintenance, inter cooler hoses, intercooler, oil cooler lines, Very expensive injectors, injection pump, injection pump solenoid. fuel filters, fuel system priming, water in the fuel, sedimenter draining, exhaust manifold is sectioned and has it's own set of issues, oil drain to block is prone to leaking and difficult to replace.
Parts are not available domestically except from select suppliers.
Front cover bolts go through the aluminum, corrode, get stuck, break off, and have to be machined.

300TDI:
Same basic design as the 200TDI, but with some improvements in the front cover and cylinder head has wider bridgework, so less cracking.
Redesigned block to eliminate lower end support cradle.

292 origins are just as old as the Rover 200TDI, BUT BUT BUT...
Metal timing gears = no maintenance verses a Rover timing belt.
GM HEI ignition is bullet proof.
Cast iron head not prone to cracking.
Can change the starter, alternator, or PS Pump in about 15 minutes or much less.
Everything is accessible.
Domestic parts support = inexpensive parts over the counter or half a day availability.
Much lower maintenance = oil and filter, spark plugs, spark plug wires, cap and rotor (That's all folks!)

 

[Robert]

I think we're all just a little surprised that you're driving it daily and have no ballpark for the mileage its getting.

 

[RBBailey]

Not going to disagree, just old is old.

Which EFI did you end up going with? And why the 292 over the other engines that would bolt in on your adapter? You've got to get some MPG data! If it lands between 12 and 20 mpg, you may already have sold me. The diesel MPG is one of the reasons I went diesel, I'd need to know it isn't all the way back to what it was with the V8.

BTW, can the R380 that I am running have a different output/bell housing swapped in to fit this conversion, or would I just need to also source a new transmission, tunnel, etc...?

 

[RDavisinVA]

I think we're all just a little surprised that you're driving it daily and have no ballpark for the mileage its getting.

That's because in the 3 weeks it's been on the road with the self tuning EFI actually tuned, I keep my foot in it constantly and do not have any real numbers for someone who drives it normally. Find myself flooring it and going fast just because I can not because I need too.

Not going to disagree, just old is old.

Which EFI did you end up going with? And why the 292 over the other engines that would bolt in on your adapter? You've got to get some MPG data! If it lands between 12 and 20 mpg, you may already have sold me. The diesel MPG is one of the reasons I went diesel, I'd need to know it isn't all the way back to what it was with the V8.

BTW, can the R380 that I am running have a different output/bell housing swapped in to fit this conversion, or would I just need to also source a new transmission, tunnel, etc...?

I went with the Holly Sniper 2300

https://www.holley.com/brands/holle...s/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_2300_2bbl/

Only because the BBD for Jeep CJ hadn't been released yet.
It gets better.
With the BBD, the stock air cleaner fits right on.
We are going to use this EFI on the GM 3 liter 4 cylinder engines we build.

https://www.holley.com/brands/holle...ection/sniper_efi/sniper_efi_bbd_for_jeep_cj/

Why this engine?
The 292 has 280 ft lbs of torque at 1,600 RPM, is bullet proof reliable, runs quiet and smooth, is inexpensive, and has over the counter parts support.
The main factor is that everything is so easy to get to and to maintain.
I swapped the $400 craigslist rebuilt 292 engine, for the worn out prototype engine in 5 hours and was driving it.
Hell, I've helped people over the phone who have more hours on a timing belt swap on a TDI.
Well, the 292 has metal timing gears.

Raub called me to report he had his new starter in his TDI after only 4 hrs work.
Changing the 292 starter is a 10 minute job, 15 if you drag it out.
Starter was in stock at the local auto supply for under $50.

Why not a different engine that the adapter will fit?
The adapter will fit the GM 4 cylinder, GM inline 6 Cylinder, Vortec V6, and SB V8.
Personally I stay away from the V6/V8 engines simply because I don't know much about them, nor do I like the configuration with 2 exhaust manifolds and all the accessories bolt on in a clustered compact space that takes twice as long to work on.
The inline 6 is in there with 1 set of manifolds, 1 down pipe, and everything within reach. It could not be simpler or more easy to work on.

Mileage?
I am NOT getting 30 MPG and have not estimated for fear of putting out false figures.
Everything I write here I actually believe and really don't want to come across as a salesman wearing a plaid sports jacket that is selling used cars.
I can tell you it gets better gas mileage than our Disco I got which is not saying a whole lot.
I can also repeat what you said, that regular gas is 40 to 60 cents cheaper that diesel fuel.
This is a big offset on diesel economy.
Since diesel cost so much more than it damn well better provide some better economy.
But, we only got 20 to 23 with our 300TDI.

If you're running a long belhousing R380, Ashcroft in UK usually has what is needed to fit a stumpy belhousing and first motion shaft.

 

[RamblerRob]

Would this fit into a series truck sitting on a defender chassis or would it run into trouble with the reduced space at the front of the engine bay

 

[RDavisinVA]

Would this fit into a series truck sitting on a defender chassis or would it run into trouble with the reduced space at the front of the engine bay

Yes it would run out of space.
We do build the 4 cylinder GM engines for the series 88 and 109 that would fit.

 

[RamblerRob]

Ive currently got the vortec v6 mostly sorted, just thinking agead to the next project

 

[Robert]

That's because in the 3 weeks it's been on the road with the self tuning EFI actually tuned, I keep my foot in it constantly and do not have any real numbers for someone who drives it normally. Find myself flooring it and going fast just because I can not because I need too.

I find myself doing the same with the built 4.6. But that flooring it stop light to stop light and doing 85 on the highway with AC blowing MPG is not that far off from completely loaded down off road MPG.



I am jealous of how smooth that r380 shifts. I must lose 5mph between gear shifts on mine.

 

[RDavisinVA]

I find myself doing the same with the built 4.6. But that flooring it stop light to stop light and doing 85 on the highway with AC blowing MPG is not that far off from completely loaded down off road MPG.



I am jealous of how smooth that r380 shifts. I must lose 5mph between gear shifts on mine.

Yes sir.
When you're clocking it you need to shift quickly.

 

[ezzzzzzz]

I've driven the 2.5 and 3.0 4 banger conversions (hell, I had a lot of input into those conversions). I've converted a series to 4.3 V6. I've probably got the first LS1 conversion project still sitting in my garage to finish. I've been impressed with each and each has it's place. I driven the 292 L6 conversion in carb'd and EFI format. This 292 is a joy to drive. The EFI is a game changer. It idles great, pulls hard in every proper rpm/gear selection. It has to be getting mileage comparable to the LR V8 offerings or better. What it definitely brings to the table is torque. You can tow. You can offroad at low rpm. You can accelerate in traffic. You can cruise at 70 with plenty of power available at will. You can get parts everywhere. You can work on it with ease. You can install it at much less cost and aggravation than a V6/V8. A diesel has it's place and many are diehard about it but it's comparing apples to oranges. If mileage is your biggest concern they sell Prius' every day. Whether it is a modern powerplant is really a nonstarter. I recall racing my '73 Z28 with a nasty LT1 under the hood (1200 rpm idle with 8 inches of vacuum). When competition would ask what I was running. I'd respond it didn't matter whether it was a V8 or Evinrude outboard. It only mattered who got to the finish line first.

 

[RBBailey]

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. But I also hate it!!

At the Brit Field Meet a few weeks back, there were at least six LS, or Chevy in-line conversion trucks on the field. The only one I've known to have issues is the one in the 109 with a bad install on the radiator. This should be an easy fix, but he hasn't been bothered enough to do it since he has several other vehicles he is playing with.

The reason I don't like the idea is because it isn't ...it isn't Rover... I know.... I should get over it. But there's something about keeping it in the family. And there's something about everyone gassing up almost twice as often as I do. And there's something about the diesel sound, and....

As I said before, it also feels odd to put an engine in it that is likely twice as old as the vehicle itself. I know parts are there, but does that mean pistons, heads, valves, all new? All available at any time? At some point, the metal in the blocks has to get tired, and at some point, the core parts have to start running thin.

That's why I say I have to wait till mine breaks to make the decision to do a conversion back to gas. In the meantime, I am curious about overall cost for conversion from the 300Tdi, and I'm curious about some real world MPG. This is my daily driver that I rely on, so MPG is a thing.

 

[The Dro]

Robert,


Any idea when you'll have a kit or partial parts available?


I'm very interested in the engine mounts.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

I'm curious about some real world MPG. This is my daily driver that I rely on, so MPG is a thing.

Its a 4.8 liter gas engine, not likely to be a thing.

How many years will you need to drive your 300 tdi getting low 20's in order to break even on the cost of your tdi conversion ?

The 292's can be bought brand new for $1500 with warranty. Not going to shatter any mpg records but uber simple & lots of power and one of the least expensive engines out there.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not putting one in any of my trucks but it certainly checks the box's for most owners. The fact that its bolt in and easily reversible in an afternoon back to a rover engine makes it attractive to those without mig's and angle grinders and fab skills.

 

[Red90]

This is my daily driver that I rely on, so MPG is a thing.

Go buy a small car. It will be much more enjoyable to drive. You will spend half as much on fuel. You can stop driving yourself insane worrying that your Defender's engine is about to explode at any second. Save the Defender for trips that it is needed and that it is good at.

 

[RBBailey]

I wouldn't mind getting a commuter car, but we already have four Rovers and the Mercedes for the wife. I'd have to let the LWB go before it's properly aged to barn-find status.

 

[RDavisinVA]

Robert,


Any idea when you'll have a kit or partial parts available?


I'm very interested in the engine mounts.

We have a set of engine mounts as we have already built some, but kits won't be out until June of 2019.

 

[85RED110]

2nd in line behind Cuban Pete.

We have a set of engine mounts as we have already built some.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[RDavisinVA]

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. But I also hate it!

To convert or not convert is a decision you'll have to make based on your comfort zones and needs.

The reason I don't like the idea is because it isn't ...it isn't Rover.

That's the best part. Rover engines of the period we have are notoriously unreliable.

Go buy a small car. It will be much more enjoyable to drive. You will spend half as much on fuel. You can stop driving yourself insane worrying that your Defender's engine is about to explode at any second. Save the Defender for trips that it is needed and that it is good at.

We have a 1985 Mercedes 300TD that will eventually be a commuter car complete with a dual chamber fuel tank for switching back and forth from diesel and WVO.
I haven't prioritized getting it on the road because the 110 is too much fun to drive and am backed up building and shipping engines for people.
Some day. Some day...

2nd in line behind "Cuban Pete".

Now that is funny.
You and Pedro should have your own TV show.