Defender 110 2.0 and Overlanding ...

broncoduecer

Technical Excellence Contributor
I’ve always been surprised (or disappointed depending on how you look at it, but I’ve never wanted a toyota) how bad Toyota mpg has always been. Great longevity but certainly seems to come at the price of mpg. As reviewed the jeep had better economy! I didn’t know the 4Runner had a crawl mode, that’s kind of neat.
Pretty consistent reviews on the D2 though, everyone seems to be pretty impressed with how it does. Thanks for sharing.
 

cug

Member
The problem with this “review” was that the guys had zero clues what they were doing off-road (well, maybe the Jeep driver did). This hill climb with as little help as possible was a frigging joke. If the rest can be trusted as much, the whole review is useless.
 

cug

Member
On another note: we (wife and I) did a Land Rover Experience day yesterday. The car we used showed all kinds of error messages (Low Coolant, Low Wiper Fluid, power steering, ...) – some of them completely bogus, the fluids were fine, most of them after having been at extreme angles.

Most were understandable, like the low fluid warnings after having been at a 30 degree side lean or going up/down steep inclines. But they should clear themselves when the condition changes, not just when you either dismiss them (error triangle remains), or when the car is restarted. The "power steering reduced" came during a muddy water crossing, maybe also understandable, but the car had to "power cycled" to recover from it.

Overall, the car is EXTREMELY capable in stock form once you understand what the various terrain programs and other helpers actually do (or try to help with). The approach/break over/departure angles are shockingly large for a car without any modifications. The messaging above didn't diminish any of this, but it is highly annoying to have stop on flat ground, turn the car off, turn the car back on for these to disappear (we only did this for the power steering one, since it was a new one for the instructor). It's slightly unnerving.

A part explanation we got was that this particular car was a pre-production "beta release" car, not a final production car or even a second year (2021) car which would have received many updates and fixes. Since this was a Land Rover owned/organized experience, I can believe that. It didn't really sway me one way or another with regards to final product reliability. Although, we didn't get a check engine light, which was surprising since they are all supposed to show that ... ;)

Overall, a great experience that I can highly recommend for anyone doubting the capabilities of this car:

IMG_3731.jpeg


This was much steeper than it looks, I was climbing down while filming and nearly fell a few times:

Screen Shot 2020-11-09 at 09.50.18.png


The car was stock, with 20" wheels and off road tires NOT aired down.

I drove it back up on that rocky section, it was easy with a good spotter. The V6 is a torque monster that is easily usable. The brakes are a bit jerky and you basically have to use just a big toe, not a foot to get to smooth braking.

The Defender did way more than we'd hopefully ever need on one of our "exploration camping" tours. The slight downside for this would be that the car is already very, very tall in stock form and with a roof top tent would be so high, I'd be concerned about going through slightly more densely forested areas. The electronic gremlins seemed to be rather real, although I can't say how much they actually pose a problem that would stop a trip or become a real problem that would need immediate attention.

And to be clear: a Wrangler Rubicon would have done all of these trails just as easy (or easier) and a 4Runner TRD would have done most of them as well, some with different path since the approach/departure angles are much shallower. I think a 4Runner would need suspension work for slightly more clearance for one or two of the things we've done with the stock Defender yesterday, but to be fair: there is a lot of suspension work (and more) possible with the price difference between the cars. But to do trails like this in luxury style, the Defender is probably the only option this side of 100k USD (the G Wagon being far on the other side of that).

So, coming back to overlanding: a Defender configured with less luxury aimed at a more reasonable price point would probably be a very capable rig. It's also the only one that can do double duty towing a mid sized trailer. Whether it's smart to use one for this kind of application may depend whether it's a dedicated rig just for overlanding or whether it's also used in normal day to day driving. The Defender can do both and in style and comfort, a 4Runner is probably the better dedicated (and long term) overlander.

On normal roads, the Defender is not just in a different league, it's in a different universe compared to Wrangler, 4Runner or any trucks I've been in. It drives more like a heavy, luxurious car, while the others just can't hide their truck or pure off road heritage.
 
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blueboy

Well-known member
On another note: we (wife and I) did a Land Rover Experience day yesterday. The car we used showed all kinds of error messages (Low Coolant, Low Wiper Fluid, power steering, ...) – some of them completely bogus, the fluids were fine, most of them after having been at extreme angles.

Most were understandable, like the low fluid warnings after having been at a 30 degree side lean or going up/down steep inclines. But they should clear themselves when the condition changes, not just when you either dismiss them (error triangle remains), or when the car is restarted. The "power steering reduced" came during a muddy water crossing, maybe also understandable, but the car had to "power cycled" to recover from it.

Overall, the car is EXTREMELY capable in stock form once you understand what the various terrain programs and other helpers actually do (or try to help with). The approach/break over/departure angles are shockingly large for a car without any modifications. The messaging above didn't diminish any of this, but it is highly annoying to have stop on flat ground, turn the car off, turn the car back on for these to disappear (we only did this for the power steering one, since it was a new one for the instructor). It's slightly unnerving.

A part explanation we got was that this particular car was a pre-production "beta release" car, not a final production car or even a second year (2021) car which would have received many updates and fixes. Since this was a Land Rover owned/organized experience, I can believe that. It didn't really sway me one way or another with regards to final product reliability. Although, we didn't get a check engine light, which was surprising since they are all supposed to show that ... ;)

Overall, a great experience that I can highly recommend for anyone doubting the capabilities of this car:

View attachment 15766

This was much steeper than it looks, I was climbing down while filming and nearly fell a few times:

View attachment 15767

The car was stock, with 20" wheels and off road tires NOT aired down.

I drove it back up on that rocky section, it was easy with a good spotter. The V6 is a torque monster that is easily usable. The brakes are a bit jerky and you basically have to use just a big toe, not a foot to get to smooth braking.

The Defender did way more than we'd hopefully ever need on one of our "exploration camping" tours. The slight downside for this would be that the car is already very, very tall in stock form and with a roof top tent would be so high, I'd be concerned about going through slightly more densely forested areas. The electronic gremlins seemed to be rather real, although I can't say how much they actually pose a problem that would stop a trip or become a real problem that would need immediate attention.

And to be clear: a Wrangler Rubicon would have done all of these trails just as easy (or easier) and a 4Runner TRD would have done most of them as well, some with different path since the approach/departure angles are much shallower. I think a 4Runner would need suspension work for slightly more clearance for one or two of the things we've done with the stock Defender yesterday, but to be fair: there is a lot of suspension work (and more) possible with the price difference between the cars. But to do trails like this in luxury style, the Defender is probably the only option this side of 100k USD (the G Wagon being far on the other side of that).

So, coming back to overlanding: a Defender configured with less luxury aimed at a more reasonable price point would probably be a very capable rig. It's also the only one that can do double duty towing a mid sized trailer. Whether it's smart to use one for this kind of application may depend whether it's a dedicated rig just for overlanding or whether it's also used in normal day to day driving. The Defender can do both and in style and comfort, a 4Runner is probably the better dedicated (and long term) overlander.

On normal roads, the Defender is not just in a different league, it's in a different universe compared to Wrangler, 4Runner or any trucks I've been in. It drives more like a heavy, luxurious car, while the others just can't hide their truck or pure off road heritage.
No error messages when driving a stock Rangie in worse conditions. Same as the previous Defender. There is just way too much electronics in the new Defender.
7DF10F9E-E952-44EC-B84E-C24702D848BE.jpeg
 

cug

Member
No error messages when driving a stock Rangie in worse conditions. Same as the previous Defender. There is just way too much electronics in the new Defender.

I'd say conditions are always hard to judge. The "you had to be there" is very true. That picture you posted there is just slanted to the left. There is no mountain range where you have snow line and terrain changes like this. It just doesn't exist, this is roughly the angle correct view:

index.jpeg


It's a very, very obvious fake, the driver couldn't sit like this if he was going downhill as shown in the original. The tires would compress way different, the mountains in the background wouldn't fall from the face of the earth and so on. Cheap and cheesy.

While I agree, that the Defender has A LOT of electronics, possibly more than necessary, just putting up some fake BS doesn't count as an argument in my very personal view.
 

Adam

Well-known member
Not sure if this was linked yet, but this is a much better comparison of the Wrangler, 4Runner & Defender 2.0, beyond those stupid videos doing tug of war, etc.

 

cug

Member
I saw this one. Unfortunately the off road comparison is a bad joke. The Defender was using ALL it’s goodies (central and rear diff as well as traction systems - which you can see working in the video) while for the Toyota they complained they had to turn on these systems - and then they didn’t even know in which order to do so. 4low + A-TRAC would have done the trick. What a bunch or morons.
 

RDavisinVA

Technical Excellence Contributor
You can do weekend camping out of most any 4WD.
There aren't really enough Defenders out there that have been used for much of any overlanding, even light duty to provide any real experience, so all you're likely to get will be opinions..
There are other options like a 110 Dormobile camper if you decide to get an older, better suited, 80s era 110 camper.
 

blueboy

Well-known member
I'd say conditions are always hard to judge. The "you had to be there" is very true. That picture you posted there is just slanted to the left. There is no mountain range where you have snow line and terrain changes like this. It just doesn't exist, this is roughly the angle correct view:

View attachment 15774

It's a very, very obvious fake, the driver couldn't sit like this if he was going downhill as shown in the original. The tires would compress way different, the mountains in the background wouldn't fall from the face of the earth and so on. Cheap and cheesy.

While I agree, that the Defender has A LOT of electronics, possibly more than necessary, just putting up some fake BS doesn't count as an argument in my very personal view.
Actually is from the Rangie ad campaign in the late 80’s. They all are pretty cool. And as a current owner of a RRC that has been driven extensively off road here in the US and Europe, it doesn’t have those issues. Maybe some others yet the dash never lit up and there are plenty of sensors on it. Also owned a 110 in Brasil that was driven pretty hard off road without any warning lights flashing in my face.
To each his own, yet, I’ll take my Rangie and unmolested D1 any day of the week versus the new Defender. And that isn’t BS.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
Most were understandable, like the low fluid warnings after having been at a 30 degree side lean or going up/down steep inclines.

While I highly doubt that those faults were false flags, I think its especially funny if they are legit warnings due to being off road. Keep in mind, a 97 NAS D90 had an abs control module just to detect wheel spin so that the pcm would not flag a misfire fault when off road.

Fwiw, I’ve done a Land Rover driving experience in Solihull in ‘06 and Edinburgh in ‘19. In ‘06 the LR3 had an air suspension failure and the vehicle had to be retired for the day. I highly recommend doing one of these experiences if you have the chance, but keep in mind that these tracks are manicured to highlight the vehicles capabilities with a completely inexperienced driver. They aren’t really a good metric to judge the vehicles off road capability (and I’m sure the Pretender is great off road).
 

blueboy

Well-known member
While I highly doubt that those faults were false flags, I think its especially funny if they are legit warnings due to being off road. Keep in mind, a 97 NAS D90 had an abs control module just to detect wheel spin so that the pcm would not flag a misfire fault when off road.
Exactly. The beasts were made to be taken off road. And survive for the long haul. Always thought the “oh shit” bar for the passenger in the RRC typified this. It is also interesting to me that in the RRC workshop manual it discusses field repairs. Its been too long since I had the ‘95 D90 SW to remember its manual.

Cool piece of info on the D90.
 

hillstrubl

Founding Member
but it is highly annoying to have stop on flat ground, turn the car off, turn the car back on for these to disappear (we only did this for the power steering one, since it was a new one for the instructor). It's slightly unnerving.
I'm not against it and I'm sure it'll cross said trails, but I already have enough anxiety hoping my LR3 won't have lights when I take it on trails
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