Defender 110 2.0 and Overlanding ...

cug

Member
Since I don't want to pollute the accessories thread with discussions about whether or not a new Defender is okay for for an overland rig, I'm starting a new thread.

From my perspective, I was contemplating a Defender 110 as a light duty overlander. It has dropped way down on the shortlist given some of the teething issues I've seen (worst sample), although I'm not too worried about hick ups with the infotainment system, I am worried about this being just the tip of the iceberg and it being a possible sign that the software is not just rough, but written in a "suboptimal way" and hard to debug.

For me personally, I'm not looking into full time or even long time overlanding for now. What I'm looking for is a weekend exploring and camping rig, a vehicle with my ground clearance than the average cross-over and more capability to get me out from a trail that might have turned muddy or slippery overnight. I'm not interested in fording actual rivers (or even larger creeks), rock crawling, living away from civilization for extended periods or travel beyond North America, the contiguous US states, Canada, and Alaska have more than enough unpaved back roads and light trails to keep me busy for a while.

My main question started out with a question for accessory installation cost, namely the mud flaps (at least the rears are important since I'm planning to sometimes pull a trailer) and the onboard air compressor. I was quoted what I consider laughable numbers and was curious what people have seen on these accessories. Either self install or shop install when buying a new vehicle.

For the rest of this discussion I think it's a starting point for opinions on the new Defender as a light to medium duty overlander. Roof tent, AT tires, maybe a front winch, and interior purpose built storage might be interesting for others here as well.

Yes, I'm aware that there are vehicles on the market that are more proven and simpler and considered more reliable and while that is worth mentioning, I would say that the Defender SHOULD be able to do the same. How well it does that for people here is probably interesting for others as well. I think everybody is also interested in positive experiences, not just what could possibly go wrong with first year (or second model year if it's a 2021) car.
 

cug

Member
I’ve never said I was looking for a pickup ... so, maybe you have something more interesting to contribute?
 

rlynch356

Well-known member
how much were they charging for mud flaps?
I'm sure that the after market will catch up with the defender 2, lucky 8 is already making a start at that, and they are doing the next batch of challenge trucks for the current series (not sure what its called though)
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
There are at least three other YouTube people having issues with their new Defenders.......

I need one of those posters with the UFO, but with a new Defender in its place: I WANT TO BELIEVE.

I'd still be interested in one if I was in the position to buy a new vehicle. I think I'd wait till 2021, or even later. And since I'm usually on my own now -- not with kids, and my wife just doesn't like camping, I'd consider a 90. It is a large enough vehicle that it should be good for one person, if you go ahead and get a good roof rack.
 

erover82

Well-known member
There are at least three other YouTube people having issues with their new Defenders.......

I need one of those posters with the UFO, but with a new Defender in its place: I WANT TO BELIEVE.

I'd still be interested in one if I was in the position to buy a new vehicle. I think I'd wait till 2021, or even later. And since I'm usually on my own now -- not with kids, and my wife just doesn't like camping, I'd consider a 90. It is a large enough vehicle that it should be good for one person, if you go ahead and get a good roof rack.

Wait five years and check back. The current corporate shake up may lead to a refresh in the design department and hopefully the common mid-cycle refresh where designers get to repent for sins of the past. They may have also figured out many of the systems bugs by then. I personally have more hope in the Grenadier.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
Wait five years and check back. The current corporate shake up may lead to a refresh in the design department and hopefully the common mid-cycle refresh where designers get to repent for sins of the past. They may have also figured out many of the systems bugs by then. I personally have more hope in the Grenadier.

Land Rover doesn’t fix “bugs” because they are usually systems with inherent design flaws. Look at InControl Touch Pro. No amount of software updates (which they keep coming out with) are going to make it function like it should. The number of times I’ve driven a Land Rover with a touch screen blank or stuck on the reverse camera is absurd.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I wonder if they consider McGovern to be a bug.

But seriously, I do think a person considering the new Defender for overlanding should look to the LR3 for clues and wait a year or two, get one certified used, and find that most of the bugs have been worked out. This is the way it's been with Land Rover for many years, and it doesn't seem like they have changed with this new Defender.
 

LR Max

Well-known member
Sounds like you need to look for a more established platform that is through its teething issues (aka 2-3 years into production) and good aftermarket availability. The current defender has none of this because its brand new. I think you are asking too much from a product that just showed up.

So a Discovery 5 (which I'm keen on), Lexus GX460, or 200 series cruiser (L405 left out since not a lot of aftermarket available) are what you really need to be looking at.

More importantly, the fact you are just looking for a vehicle that can handle "easy trails that have deteriorated overnight", I'd be including the new Chevy AT4/Z71 cars, Toyota Sequoias, and Ford Expeditions. All will do what you want, have great aftermarket, have TONS of support, and are already established platforms (well the chevy is new but still uses many known systems). I'd get one of those and slap a good all terrain tire on it, and go. These cars will be fantastic the rest of the time on the road and daily use, have tons of storage, have decent luxury items, and a support dealer readily available. The Chevy and the Ford will be hoss bosses for towing. While these cars will not be as off road capable as a Land Rover, they will do what you want with ease and stride.

For the air compressor, just buy a good portable viair pump and throw it in the back. Done and done.
 

Adam

Well-known member
So a Discovery 5 (which I'm keen on), Lexus GX460, or 200 series cruiser (L405 left out since not a lot of aftermarket available) are what you really need to be looking at.

I daily a 2017 Disco V, and while its a very comfortable vehicle, I specifically bought it because it was NOT what was required for the adventures listed above. That time, money and effort is focused on my Defender. Even w/the rear locker (one of the few options mine does not have), I do not think I would trust the Disco V for what has been described. I love the diesel, I love the comfort and convenience, but its not an overland rig IMO.

My previous daily was a Nissan Xterra Pro-4X that I drove from TN - CO on the TAT w/a roof top tent. My recommendation to OP, if looking to buy new would be a Toyota 4Runner. For me, a mid sized diesel pickup a-la Chevy Colorado would probably be my go-to if I was looking to buy new for overlanding today.

Things to think about:

What is the overall range of the vehicle - not MPG, but Miles per tank?
How far in and out can you go with a jerry can, two?
What does the dealer network look like?
Should something break, how likely will you be to find someone to fix it?
What is the payload, storage of the vehicle - how much gear can it manage vs what you need?
What is your human capacity? How many people do you need to transport?
Are you looking to, or open to towing a camper? This can change A LOT of dynamics.

A pickup with the right config can support a RTT and a TON of storage/payload. The diesel engine gets you the overall range, and bob's your uncle.

Long term - the Grenadier should solve many of these - if we see it in the US.
 

LR Max

Well-known member
@Adam help me here. How is a D5 not a great overlanding rig. Has fantastic suspension on and off road (which a lot of vehicles can't say that), can fit 32s on it, very good ground clearance, comfortable, excellent range with the diesel, good towing capacity, and excellent carrying capacity with dat booty. Add the rear diff locker and off road cruise control (ATPC I think? Yeah next rover gonna have all that for me) and it makes short work out of any trail.

Yeah computers are scary but that is why we carry the GAP tool, spare air fittings, air piping, and trim tools. I'm leaning more toward the diesel and taking care of it. I think they got it fixed up from the LR4 days. GAP tool will help reset any emission control module faults and keep an eye on the DPF. The efficiency of the diesel is about the same as a gasser+5 gallon gas can. Fewer fuel cans being carried is always good or extend range even more.
 

Adam

Well-known member
The
@Adam help me here. How is a D5 not a great overlanding rig. Has fantastic suspension on and off road (which a lot of vehicles can't say that), can fit 32s on it, very good ground clearance, comfortable, excellent range with the diesel, good towing capacity, and excellent carrying capacity with dat booty. Add the rear diff locker and off road cruise control (ATPC I think? Yeah next rover gonna have all that for me) and it makes short work out of any trail.

I can't disagree with many of your points regarding the diesel, towing capacity and load carrying. It's a great road trip vehicle. Where I think it falls down is off road. I do not have the confidence in it - part of that may be the standard streetish tires, the fragile bumpers and cladding, lackluster approach and departure angle - and that I don't have the rear locker. I am not sure that it would have stood up even on warloop road on the Trans America Trail. Granted, that's one of the more difficult sections east of the Mississippi, but I certainly wouldn't have taken it on anything more difficult than that.

The roof has a max capacity of 176 lbs and it is difficult to imagine how you would mount much of a RTT up there.

One of my biggest complaints are that the doors on the Disco are MASSIVE, they extend fully down to the bottom of the body. This means that even in suburbia, I have to be aware of the height of curbs when I get out of the vehicle. I will often put it in off-road height, just to make sure I clear the curb. This would be doubly bad in any sort of an off road environment where you need to be able to open the door fully to get in and out. In parked mode, it has about 11 inches of clearance.

You make a compelling argument that the Disco V may have the potential, but I think its too softly clad and too low hanging for that kind of adventure. I've seen what Lucky8 has done with theirs, and perhaps in that trim?

On-road, its a pure pleasure.
 

jymmiejamz

Founding Member
Callsign: KN4JHI
Good luck taking a modern Land Rover diesel off road for any length of time unless you plan on jumping on the highway every three days. The DPF will be clogged after about 3-7 days of low speed driving. Once the DPF soot levels have reached 32.5g you are looking at a $4,000+ DPF replacement after you have it towed to the repair shop.

I love the diesel, but unless you consider spending a weekend at a state park overlanding, it is not really a great overland vehicle.
 

cug

Member
My recommendation to OP, if looking to buy new would be a Toyota 4Runner.

The 4Runner is at the top of my list as well. Possibly either a Limited, switched over to 17" wheels, AT tires, different front/rear bumpers and a roof top tent (I think it's unlikely that I'll ever need the rear locker), or a TRD Offroad Premium, since the TRD Pro is hard to come by and I absolutely hate dealer markup.

Aftermarket support here in the US is definitely best on a Wrangler, closely followed by the 4Runner. There is nothing for the Defender and my guess is that it'll stay that way. The vehicle might be capable, but it seems that the rest of the market position has gone slightly off track for what I consider a Defender was meant for.

In the end, the only things I'd REALLY need is a vehicle that gets me out from the trail it got me in, has the ability to mount a decent roof top tent, has great ground clearance and can mount some decent AT tires. The rest of the goodies are for rougher stuff than I intend to do – but my problem has always been that intention and reality has diverged significantly. I always found myself in tougher situations than I initially planned.
 
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rlynch356

Well-known member
Land cruiser 200 series is what I switched to from the 4Runner limited. Take a good look at the payload capacity’s for both.

this is one area the defender2 did a great job in as well. That and the interior design.

also aftermarket support for the 200 is excellent.
 
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