Cummins Repower ISF 2.8 for Defenders

[rocky]

As to the TD5 reference. There are literally thousands of trucks running out there that are tuned to the same level as this engine. 99% of them have an R380. People are breaking them, but it is not common. With a sensible driver, it should be fine for most people. As long as this is clear going in, then the owner can decide which way to go

The caveat to this is that the TD5 uses a Dual Mass Flywheel to "soften" the torque pulse going into the R380.

So should we be thinking for stick shift set ups R2.8 Cummins via a DMF to stumpy R380 to LT230? Or is there insufficient room for a DMF instead of a single plate clutch?

 

[donb]

I mounted the lt230 using stock mounts where it would be in a 97 NAS 90.
Drive shafts used are stock

The way you are doing the conversion is beautiful and will be bulletproof, nice to drive and reliable. However, you must admit it has involved a huge amount of time researching, developing prototype parts and having custom parts built as well as fairly significant costs beyond the engine and gearbox adapter. Not everyone has the capabilities to design and built that you have or do they have the desire to spend that much time and money on an engine conversion.

A conversion that would allow the existing gearbox and transfer case to remain unchanged could be brought to a bolt on level and reduce that extra time and cost outlay by a huge margin.

As to the TD5 reference. There are literally thousands of trucks running out there that are tuned to the same level as this engine. 99% of them have an R380. People are breaking them, but it is not common. With a sensible driver, it should be fine for most people. As long as this is clear going in, then the owner can decide which way to go

Having the LT230 in the stock location is a very big plus.

Also agree with Red90's comment that an existing gearbox will simplify things considerably and be should be less expensive. And a nicely designed kit could make it weekend "bolt in" for a decent mechanic.

Would the ZF 4HP22 be any better? Or would the internals have to be changed so much it isn't worth it?

 

[Ash]

Would a stock gearbox really solve many problems inherent with this conversion? R380 with a long bellhousing is about 25" OAL, compared to the ~30.25" of a 6L80, extension housing and transfer case adapter. The biggest obstacle that I've seen (and I haven't been following this thread closely) is that heat exchanger interfering with the steering box. Will pulling the engine, which is about 0.75" longer than my shortest LS, rearward ~5" (not accounting for the transmission adapter thickness) free up enough space to clear everything?

I suppose you could use a stubby bellhousing but things might get awfully crowded there at the firewall if the intention is to use the factory transfer case location.

-Ash

 

[Red90]

No. Short bellhousing. Someone obviously needs to look at the details to see if things fit. As long as the conversion is complicated it will never be popular.

The average owner does not have the skill, time or money for a complex engine transplant.

All these $20000+ conversions are fun to look at but they are just for rich people.

 

[rocky]

As long as the conversion is complicated it will never be popular.

.

Thats the crux of the matter. We (me included) are all great about talking through the engine transmission etc options, but follow through with dollars committed is relatively poor. The Cummins conversion needs to mature with accepted transmissions etc combinations before its popularity can develop.

I have no idea whether there are any new Rover V8 (or Tdi) blocks being cast these days or not. If there aren't any, we're all likely to need a conversion to another engine within a decade.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

The way you are doing the conversion is beautiful and will be bulletproof, nice to drive and reliable. However, you must admit it has involved a huge amount of time researching, developing prototype parts and having custom parts built as well as fairly significant costs beyond the engine and gearbox adapter. Not everyone has the capabilities to design and built that you have or do they have the desire to spend that much time and money on an engine conversion.

I agree with some of what you are saying. We have built a complete truck, not just done an engine swap. We are into the project way over 220 hrs. That coverts to $19k alone.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

No. Short bellhousing. Someone obviously needs to look at the details to see if things fit. As long as the conversion is complicated it will never be popular.

The average owner does not have the skill, time or money for a complex engine transplant.

All these $20000+ conversions are fun to look at but they are just for rich people.

I measured from the back of the head to the bulkhead this morning. 11 inches.
With a shorter trans there is plenty of room to go back and clearance at the steering box woud be a non issue.

 

[MountainD]

I know the P38 steering box fits on Series—- is there a similar conversion for outside the rails on a defenders?

 

[Uncle Douglas]

I know the P38 steering box fits on Series?- is there a similar conversion for outside the rails on a defenders?

Why ?

The engine is a perfect fit for these trucks, the ONLY reason I, and Heritage Driven have had to make some adjustments is because of the very large transmission chosen, the GM 6L80e which is a 6 speed auto and very large
.
If bolted to yout rover manual gear box there is no fittment issue. The engine is very ismilar in size to a 200 or 300 tdi. I have posted the dimensions.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

Engine clears steering lhd box just fine.

I have always disliked the Rover hydraulic lines. In this picture you can see I have made adapters and converted to normal AN fittings. These lines have similar fittings @ the other end. The powere steering resevoir is aluminum and has AN fittings on the bottom so no more of the hose clamp weep all the other Rovers have. These three lines cost $82. Superior to oem, cheaper, and you can have replacments made in any small town.

The 5/8 nipple in the lower s shaped radiator hose is the return from the coolant bottle.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

This picture gives you some idea how large the 6l80e transmission is and the huge space it leaves behind the engine.

Red spaghetti wiring is the glow plug relay and leads. I just have it draped over the engine in these pics.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

Here's the front of the engine vs chassis crossmember and puller fan. I have the radiator sitting in the stock unmodified mounts, the transcooler in the stock 97 D90 spot. The cooler is an exact copy of the original Defender one except it has -6N fittings for ease of having anyone make a hose should the Parkers I had made ever need replacement 40 yrs from now, which is doubtful.

Transcooler and lines arent visible in this picture. The hoses you see are power steering.

Stock steering drag link was a place holder so we could move the truck around, that has been replaced with a huge hd one.

 

[chris snell]

Who built the radiator and IC?

 

[chris snell]

The gap between radiator and motor is bigger than I expected, considering how long than transmission is.


Damn, Doug. I'm very, very jealous.

 

[donb]

Thanks for the pictures Doug!

That is crazy how much the R2.8 engine is forward of the bulkhead but it might be nice for all around access to the engine. The front section doesn't look tight either with that beautiful radiator and electric fan setup.

Found this when I was researching R2.8 setups tonight: https://www.repowerowners.com/forum/r2-8-r3-8-builds/416-first-defender-build-on-the-road

 

[rherl]

Makes me think of using the MT82 again. Everything in stock TCDI location, just need an adapter made.

 

[rocky]

Going MT82 would bring its own collection of fit problems. We're trying to make this simpler.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

radiator fittment with intercooler tucked cleanly under slam panel

 

[Uncle Douglas]

another angle

 

[Uncle Douglas]

side view