Cummins Repower ISF 2.8 for Defenders

Overlander

Well-known member
Callsign: KM4BOR
according to the Cummins website, 2.8 repower is still not legal in TX and WV. anybody tracking legal progress, if any in TX?
 

rocky

NAS-ROW Addict
So I was working from home yesterday and out of the blue the dogs go nuts. The doorbell rang. Looking out there's a BIG sprinter truck with Cummins service logos plastered on it. Thinking my ship had come in, I got talking to the guy. He saw my truck out there and knew all about the R2.8 engine and conversions.
Thats really encouraging news that their service guys know about the engine.
 

donb

Well-known member
See the end of this thread. Engines fitted with warranties directly by Cummins in South africa.

https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/100435-alternative-engine-to-td5/page/2/#comments

That is an interesting link/read about what the SA's are looking to do powerplant wise. Seems like the rebuilt Td5's the one guy got weren't that good but the vehicle size, mechanics and use are contributing factors.

Here is a photo from the page. That is some air filter!

H
11283
 

Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
Callsign: delete
See the end of this thread. Engines fitted with warranties directly by Cummins in South africa.

https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/100435-alternative-engine-to-td5/page/2/#comments
This explains quite a bit. Chad and I were asked to quote out repower packages for 15 game viewing rigs in Botswana. The request was from Cummins SA through Cummins here. They specified they wanted Ashcroft trans and tcases so I got a quote from Ashcroft for 15 of ea and used that quote with zero markup in our quote to Cummins. In the end they decided they could do everything cheaper. They only bought one of Chad's bellhousings presumably to crank out forgery's. As they have been working on this first one Chad has been getting emails with questions and forwarding them to me for responses since he's never worked on a rover or installed a 2.8.
First wave was pictures of his bellhousing bolted to a filthy used TD5 transmission asking how it was going to fit. I had to explain that the adapter was made for a 300tdi version of the transmission and that they had to use a new HD version as a used one would not hold up etc. Looks like they are further reducing costs by not using any hose clamps, even on the coolant hoses. The pictured engine is very different than what is sold here- no EGR, engine driven fan, different alternator,different bracketry etc.
 
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Red90

Well-known member
I just can't understand how it makes financial sense. They would need to be a lot more money than Doug charges. You could rebuild a lot of TD5s for that money.
 

Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
Callsign: delete
Did you follow the link to the game preserve owners post on that UK forum ? He'd had multiple td5's rebuilt by a company he had faith in there in Africa and they all failed quickly. He's looking for warranty.
The specs they sent us said the trucks were used appx 150km per day in the bush @ speeds up to 80kph.

Having Cummins install their own engine seems a good way to insure they have to honor that warranty.
Good idea, as it looks like they will have issues given the pictures sent to me from the fellows doing the work.
They are re using an old radiator and intercooler etc, radiator looks to have grey epoxy on the tank ? They have deleted the coolant high mounted Td5 res in favor of the air filter plumbing and look to have mocked up a res where cap will be lower than the top of the radiator so degas won't happen etc.
 
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Red90

Well-known member
Did you follow the link to the game preserve owners post on that UK forum ? He'd had multiple td5's rebuilt by a company he had faith in there in Africa and they all failed quickly. He's looking for warranty.

Yes... But you are charging over $20000 per swap. They would need to be a lot higher using factory engineers that only heard of a Defender last week. $10000 will get you the greatest engine rebuild on the planet. The TD5 should be more than adequate for what they are doing. They are just as reliable as the Cummins. There is no need for the extra power. 80 km/h is nothing. A 2.5NA would do. 150 km a day is 50k a year (30000 miles) worst case.
 

Napalm00

Technical Excellence Contributor
we charged 28k labor only on a Packard super 8 engine rebuild. Money is just a number, especially when dealing with governments. I wouldn't expect any of it to make sense.
 

Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
Callsign: delete
Yes... But you are charging over $20000 per swap. They would need to be a lot higher using factory engineers that only heard of a Defender last week. $10000 will get you the greatest engine rebuild on the planet. The TD5 should be more than adequate for what they are doing. They are just as reliable as the Cummins. There is no need for the extra power. 80 km/h is nothing. A 2.5NA would do. 150 km a day is 50k a year (30000 miles) worst case.

You should engage the owner of the safari company in a conversation on that other forum and have him justify why he wants what he wants for his business to your satisfaction. Perhaps his experience running these trucks day in and day out in remote Botswana varies from your own.

The quote asked for was not for an installation.

Quote Cummins requested was for 15 assembled lumps using Ashcroft trans and tcases. Cummins were going to supply the 15 engines to us so zero cost there and they wanted us the build out the drivetrains and crate them for shipment to Africa to include cooling , flywheel mods/clutch assembly, adapter bellhousing, wiring, frame mounts etc. Then they asked for just the parts to do one so they could copy everything in Africa (Ie give us your designs, thats when I bailed). In the end Chad sold them a single one of his kits.
 
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Red90

Well-known member
we charged 28k labor only on a Packard super 8 engine rebuild. Money is just a number, especially when dealing with governments. I wouldn't expect any of it to make sense.

I don't think it is the government. It is a private company that rents out trucks for tourists. Turner TD5 long blocks with new heads are $5700. Say $10000 worst case with shipping and install when doing 15 of them.
 

rocky

NAS-ROW Addict
Wow. That SA story is interesting. Disappointed by 150 inch 12 seaters driving in the Bush towing big ass trailers and they are knackered as soon as 300k Km. Overloaded I bet.

They're asking a whole lot from those drivetrains.
 

donb

Well-known member
Wow. That SA story is interesting. Disappointed by 150 inch 12 seaters driving in the Bush towing big ass trailers and they are knackered as soon as 300k Km. Overloaded I bet.

They're asking a whole lot from those drivetrains.

And from the sound of the guy's posts the mechanics he has aren't the most qualified:

my biggest challenge right now is that my workshop team doesn't have the skills to make a TD5 work again once they have taken it apart, in fact I wouldn't trust them with much anything, so I need functioning units to replace with, we order our gearboxes and transfer cases from ashcroft and this seems to work well (if I keep reminding my team to put the clutch plate in the right way round), and I am not around to guide them in the workshop....
 

brdhmltn

Well-known member
Looks like the international engine? Cummins changed a lot for the usa crate engine. You can order the international version off Alibaba for cheap ($5k), but it's not the same. An international Cummins branch might go that way after seeing a usa quote, but they aren't familiar with the usa one either...
 

Napalm00

Technical Excellence Contributor
I don't know if this is a park related item it probably has some government money.

I used to work for BMW We also did a government deal for the police on the island of Antigua. We sold them 25 f650 GS police bikes and spares including; tires, batteries, enough to keep the bikes running for about 5 years.

By the time the shipping got there there was only 16 bikes, only one pallet of ten spares made it. The rest had either been stolen or lost by the shipping company and the government agents. Within a year all the bikes were non-functional (bad training retention) or missing.

4 years later I also happened to divorce my wife who was also from Antigua.
 
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Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
Callsign: delete
For the money he is spending, he could fly Doug down there for six months and be further ahead.
We offered to fly in and supervise the first install and teach the mechanics in our quote for the cost of airfare and room and board for a week @ the preserve. Pretty sure Cummins SA edited that out as well.
 
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