Brakes & Things

Napalm00

Technical Excellence Contributor
If the pedal dropped after you did a rear brake adjustment then something has to be going on back there.

on the stainless steel lines that probably either the wrong part in the box or you already have extended lines so just leave it
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
If there is a warp or loosness in the system between the rotor and the caliper, then as you drive this "wobble" will press the pads further back into the caliper. The first press pushes them to the rotor (hence the play in the system) and then the second press activates the pads. Pads feel normal after that because you don't have a leak anywhere--you just have something creating this play.

I have for years (and others have too) found that wheel, particularly going downhill off rocks, that the next first press we have a LOT of play to take up and then the brakes work fine. None of us have been able to find it and fix it. I have gone as far as replacing my bearings and races thinking it may be a race wobbling that wasn't seated right, but that didn't fix it. I have also changed rotors and pads in that time--never found it. If someone does know what is happening there, let me know!

But that is my theory. I can't point to a solution and would love to find one. Your issue may be similar...
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
If there is a warp or loosness in the system between the rotor and the caliper, then as you drive this "wobble" will press the pads further back into the caliper.

Right. This is the reason I am thinking the squeak might have something to do with it. I took some video of the rolling wheels, tires, as I drove last night, just to make sure there wasn't something obvious that I could only detect by looking while driving. Nothing.

The only things I can think of are, as noted above, that I adjusted the rear, so it must be the rear; and the squeaking that I'm hearing. (Which goes away with a slight tap on the pedal.) The squeal seems to come from the fronts, and it "sounds" like a typical brake pad squeal.

I have yet to do anything except check for problems all over the system. I thought maybe a bleed would be in order, and that I'd change over to the SS lines, but I'm not sure what's going on with those lines. I need to get measurements for how long they are "supposed" to be before I'd put them on. That's $90 from Rover's North for this set of lines, but I bought them over a year ago, and never looked in the box till a few days ago.
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
I hear you. I have tried, too. I even went so far as to go way overtight to see if it would correct it. I am only "guessing" that it was my wheel bearing as it is the only thing to make sense. But the fn thing continued to do it. I have even put a caliper on my rotors to check run out which was essentially 0 too. It may not be from the rotor...but for the life of me I cant determine what else would be doing it!! It's mainly when hard wheeling--it isn't air as that would be noticable and it is not bulging brake lines--they have all been checked. It is a mystery to this day (and still prevalent)...
 

Napalm00

Technical Excellence Contributor
Even with disc brakes in the rear I run a 2 lb residual valve in my rear brakes. This helps avoid the pad retraction issue.

That being said my entire setup is not stock
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Also. The brake squeaking I hear is pretty "normal" for what you often hear on brakes that need some kind of adjustment. Front rotors are perfect, good chunk of the pads left as well.

However, this morning I drove about 100 meters and started getting a horrible grinding screech that made me turn around and take my wife's car instead. I'm baffled. But have not had a chance to pull the wheels yet to see what I might see.
 

Napalm00

Technical Excellence Contributor
Shoe retraction on drums is totally normal. on a disc drum system and most vehicles the residual valve is built into the master cylinder

Sounds like you need to get all four wheels and tires off with the truck on jack stands and have somebody press the pedal for you so you can watch.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Before leaving, the one thing I did notice is that the rear brakes make noise when I push the pedal, and when I lift the pedal. This is while sitting still.

I’ll get the whole thing up in the air some time this week.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
If the hub is loose very often the brakes will squeal when driving without applying the brakes. This is even common on newer Land Rovers when the hub has failed.

My life right now is so busy that it has taken me all this time to get the thing up on a jack and check everything again.

I don’t even remember if I only checked the fronts for hub movement, or if I made it all the way around the truck last week. But just now I found that the right rear hub is loose. Knocks a bit when you shake it.

I know this can cause the type of squeaking I have heard, but does that also happen on drum brakes, or just with the front end?

One way or another, I’ll fix it this week and test drive to see that the real nasty sound I heard yesterday morning at least goes away. Hopefully they are both the same thing, just that it finally came loose enough for me to notice.

BTW: how will I know if I need new bearings vs. just need to tighten and repack?
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Actually, I think I might just get it towed to the shop. This looks like a job that is beyond my skills.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I’ve changed the title of this thread For obvious reasons. I’ll post an update after I get it towed and fixed. Thanks!
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I've not had the time to look into this yet, but I might be able to pull it into the garage today and spend a few minutes on it. The last time I drove it a week ago, there was a squeak/grind that was bad enough that I just turned around and took it home after a few hundred meters. The only thing I've confirmed is that the right rear hub is loose.

I'll be taking a break at some point today, so if you had an hour to spend on this, what would you do first?
 

1of40

Well-known member
I hear you. I have tried, too. I even went so far as to go way overtight to see if it would correct it. I am only "guessing" that it was my wheel bearing as it is the only thing to make sense. But the fn thing continued to do it. I have even put a caliper on my rotors to check run out which was essentially 0 too. It may not be from the rotor...but for the life of me I cant determine what else would be doing it!! It's mainly when hard wheeling--it isn't air as that would be noticable and it is not bulging brake lines--they have all been checked. It is a mystery to this day (and still prevalent)...
I’ve experienced the same problem and have wondered if it could be related to low vacuum at the booster?
 

Uncle Douglas

Well-known member
Callsign: delete
For disk brakes I don't see how that works. When you step on the pedal, the pads are squeezed against the rotor, but when you let up, nothing retracts them (assuming nothing is making the rotor wobble). They just sit there lightly touching the rotor.

often while in rock/bolders etc I have the double pump issue due to wheel bearing stress
 
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Red90

Well-known member
On discs the retraction is usually from loose hub bearings.

Part of your daily vehicle checks while on a trip should be to rock the top of each wheel to ensure the hub bearings are tight.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
OK. It has been a week and a half, and I finally got an hour to pull this thing apart. To start, the wheel spins freely and quietly as you would expect. But it does show being loose as you can hear and just see and feel the knock as you rock the thing back and forth when it is up in the air.

When I pulled the axle, there was no leaking under the cap at all, and the splines on both ends look very good.

When I pulled the drum I was surprised that the lock screw came out fine, and the drum came right off without argument. However, underneath you can see piles of grease that has come out of the hub against the back of the stub axle. Oddly, none got on the shoes or drum.

The tab washer looked to be bent in an unconvincing way... and as such, I think this is why the lock washer was only hand tight. The bearings and even the seals look fine. I think the grease leaked out merely because the hub came loose. And since it hadn’t even got to the shoes, or even dropped down to the lower part of the backing plate, I believe this is a new issue with few miles on it.

My thoughts right now are to simply clean it up and put it all back together to see what happens. I experimentally locked the hub down and put the wheel back on (sans brake drum or axle shaft) and spun it around and rocked it and didn’t get any indication that it was loose or broken in any way. One spin, and the wheel rolled on its own for almost 15 seconds without a sound.

I am going to switch to disc brakes anyway. If nothing seems broken, why not just run it till I get the parts for the swap? I think I may even get lucky and be able to properly adjust the brakes without the hub being loose as it was.

I’ll get some right stuff and brake cleaner, and see if I can put it back together tomorrow.
 

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Napalm00

Technical Excellence Contributor
looks like you just had loose wheel bearings. That rear seal is shot so Id replace it.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
So which seal? There are two per hub. I would guess the inner is blown, and there are four PNs; two of them come up with no results, two of them have results, but only one seems correct: RTC3511
Is this right?
And are there any alternatives that might be available at NAPA?
 
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