1995 RRC Blower Motor....

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
So I revived the RRC to work as my daily driver so I could get some heat during the winter commute (Defender doesn't warm up for about 45 minutes of driving, and if I use the blower, it actually cools the core down enough that I don't have any more heat after a few minutes, and the Series has a leaking core that I have not been able to find a replacement for...) and wouldn't you know it, but on the first day back to life, the blower motor dies.

So.... is there any hope? This means a complete dash tear-down, right?

By the way, fuse is good, I hear the relays clicking for all four speeds. But I get no blower on any settings. The fan seemed to be weak for a bit yesterday. Today, nothing.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I've put three different 180 degree thermostats in, tested them all before, and they all act the same. The car doesn't heat up. Even when pulling four people and bags over 5000 feet at 60 mph, it only just barely breaks 185, maybe 190 degrees when the ambient temps are at 80. And I'm not even running a viscous fan! That, plus the upper and lower vents never blow warm air, only cold. I only get warm air out of the dash vents, even though the upper, lower, and dash vents are all fed by the same (oversized) hole in the bulkhead. I usually cover up 100% of the radiator, once it gets into the low 40s, and I still can't get the engine to warm up for 10-15 minutes. But yeah, this was an issue I tried to deal with in another thread last year. I thought I'd just use the RRC for the cold mornings, but now it has no heat either! Silly Rovers.......

Anyway, I'll have to do some more digging on the RRC, but the old style dash vehicles seem to need to be torn apart to get to the fan.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Well, the only problem with going warmer is that the vehicle still takes a long time to get there. It's like this: I go out tomorrow morning and start the truck. It is 43 degrees, and I have only 6 miles to drive. By the time I get to work, the temps are at 120 or so.

If I happen to have a longer drive, it still barely gets to 170 or 180, meaning that the thermostat that I currently have in the truck is just barely pretending to open, as tested.

I've got insulation in the engine bay, I have the wing top vents closed off, I have the radiator 100% covered. I've confirmed that I have quite a lot of coolant flowing through the heater core while at idle, so it isn't a flow problem.

When I drive the V8 Rovers, I'm getting nearly full heat from the vents by the time I get 1.5-2 miles.
 

Viton

Well-known member
I use Motorad Thermostats, the stock unit for the 300Tdi is Pt# 319-192.
You also need to buy the rubber gasket that fits the 319 body, Pt# MG29.
The last 3 digits indicate degrees fully opened. You can find these T-stats on eBay.
Motorad also has a stock unit 319-180, which Javelina Dave utilized in Phoenix to keep his running cooler in that hot desert environment. I use a +- 2 degrees IR gun to test these units and their stamped temperature rating on each wax pellet.

Building them hotter is just a matter of getting a stock unit (329-192) and getting one of their T-stats with a hotter rating as it's the wax pellet (the copper "thing" with the steel stud sticking out of it), disassembling them (can be done without cutting them) and reassembling the 319 "body" with a hotter wax pellet. So I'm currently running a 319-203 (203 degrees) T-stat and have also built 319-195, 319-198, 319-203, and 319-205. The wax pellets have the temperature rating stamped on the bottom of the pellets. When reassembling the components pay attention to the OAL height of the reassembled unit as the bottom of the T-stat closes a secondary port in the housing too. Be sure to put the "jiggle pin" or vent hole at the top.

Changing the T-stat is quick & easy on a cold engine. Remove coolant tank lid,take the small cap off the radiator, shove a 3/8" diameter by 5' length piece of clear vinyl hose in the rad until it stops (about 1' in), siphon away and drain into a clean 5 gal. bucket. when it stops draining you've got the level down low enough so when you open the T-stat housing (2- 8mm bolts) maybe you'll lose about a tablespoon of coolant. Install new or different T-stat with the rubber gasket, pour coolant back in radiator (take coolant reservoir cap off for ventilation) or in coolant tank. Put the lid back on the rad & coolant tank and you're done.

Something to note is that some Ford diesel pickups use a 215 degree thermostat, so a 205 is not pushing any sort of limit though when I run my 205 my VDO gage says 209 degrees, and over 210, I am not comfortable to go there, so I stick with the 203.
Hotter diesel combustion chamber temps do cause higher NOX emissions, this is why the EPA uses cooling systems on modern EGR systems to lower the EGR gas returns temperatures which puts more carbon particles back into the intake which most believe shorten the lift of a diesel engine, can't be good to put that crap back into the intake air.

Gas engine combustion temperatures run much hotter than diesel.
Diesels make more heat by burning more fuel and retaining it in the coolant, block, etc.
Look how small your radiator is compared to a gas engine.
Off road using lower RPM on a diesel and engine temp's will run low, in a gas engine you're more likely overheat at slow speeds.

PM me if you need some more direction on building hotter T-stats.
 

MountainD

Technical Excellence Contributor
When I reuse radiator fluid, I line my 5 gallon bucket with a trash bag. After I siphon, I twist the top of the bag so no contaminants get in, particularly on windy days. Then dump the fluid back in engine and use bag as next trash bag in garage or whatever...
 

Jeff B

Well-known member
So.... is there any hope? This means a complete dash tear-down, right?

Probably no hope.
Yes, a complete dash tear down.

I'm in the same boat; my fan quit working last winter... nothing, nada...a faint burning smell so I havent tried it since...


.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
I still have the Motorad 319-180 in my truck (per your advise from last summer). This T-stat (and the other two different brands I bought and installed as tests) all tested in my kitchen, and the Motorad began to move a bit when the temp got to ~178. Problem is, I rarely see the engine get past ~160, so even if I put a 200 degree t-stat in, it won't give results. Essentially, I'm rarely using any of the coolant on the closed side of the t-stat, even though it would open at 180, or less. I've checked my gauge by using an IR gun on the outside of the themrmostat housing and the area near the sender. It usually reads +/- 2 degrees or so.

As far as the RRC is concerned -- it occured to me that maybe I could just use the Disco I as a model for getting in to and replacing the fan? Isn't the '95 Classic essentially a Disco soft dash? I'm waiting for an email to confirm this from one of the local mechanics.
 

blueboy

Well-known member
There are many write ups on replacing the blower fan and associated parts for the hard dash RRCs. And yes the dash comes out. Atlantic British has one with pics.

Am guessing there is something out there for a soft dash.
 

javelinadave

Administrator
Staff member
We have two different subjects going on here. I know nothing about Classics but I know do know a tiny bit about Defenders.
As for the Defender heating system the coolant comes from the engine block, not the radiator. If you are getting it up to 160 degrees your heater core should get there too. I'm wondering if you have an obstruction in the core or a blocked heater box. Disconnect the two hoses from the core and run water both ways thru to test out the flow. The heater box or core exterior may also be packed with mud/leaves/crap, etc........ This would require you to disassemble the heater box which is kind of a PITA. When I took mine apart to install a VDO fan I found leaves, paper and a AA battery in it. Your problem may be one of these and not the thermostat.
 

RBBailey

NAS-ROW Addict
Callsign: KF7KFZ
Now that you mention the AA battery, I'm thinking problem solved! LOL!

I can tell that I'm getting heat to the core because both hoses heat up quickly. The core is new, and the heater box was refurbished before I installed it. I did dump a lot of coolant on the ground by testing flow OUT of the engine, but I failed to test for whether it was going back INTO the engine, other than feeling for the heat there at the same time that I feel the heat on the other side. I have a valve there, and I can shut it off and see an instant difference.

Two things. I don't think the engine itself gets hot on normal drives. Per my observations as stated above. But also I have the A/C type dash. The air comes in through the bulkhead through the extra large hole. It goes into the ducting, and spreads out so much that the heat is not concentrated enough to really "feel". It always comes out at the feet, the defrost, and the six vents in the center of the dash. When I put it together, I opted to NOT use the vacuum system to open and shut the various shutters in the dash, but I do have one manual lever that can direct 90% of the air up or down. But there is always air coming out the center dash no matter what. If I were to block all of those, the air flow top and bottom would be "normal" for a Defender.
 

waveridin1959

Well-known member
I would think you could drop the blower motor without taking the Dash out. Just remove the glove box then the screws holding the motor in. The heater core you cant get around removing the dash.

I would make sure it isnt the blower switch. Mine only turned the blower on Full and it took some messing around with the switch. I took the switch apart and the contacts were burnt. Replaced with a good used from Tillery and now I have all speeds.

FYI Removing the dash on a 95 isnt hard. Just time consuming. And you will more likely than not break the HVAC ducting. Its only held in with 8 nuts from what i remember. The pics show the blow with and without the dash in.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20181229_104425.jpg
    IMG_20181229_104425.jpg
    2.7 MB · Views: 357
  • IMG_20181229_105045.jpg
    IMG_20181229_105045.jpg
    2.6 MB · Views: 353
Top